Daily Sun Article 11/11

[Ben Rocky \'04]

That does not mean that Atheltics rules are right, there actions were right, or that society is correct for worrying about some words.

[DisplacedCornellian]

uh oh...somebody call the wah-mbulance......

[Ben Rocky \'04]

In a more perfect world, students would listen to Schafer and tone down some of the droning, repetitive profanity.  We should do it by choice, not because they come down with an iron fist and make us do what they want their student body to do.  

On robo goalie:
Yea, I agree.

[Will]

Ben Rocky '04 wrote:

That does not mean that Atheltics rules are right, there actions were right, or that society is correct for worrying about some words.

It also doesn't mean that your values (and, allegedly, that of Linder's) should be all that matters.  Other people have opinions and values, and don't agree with you.  They think they're right just as you think you are.  But, they are the ones who make the rules right now, and we have no choice but to follow them.  Frankly, I think it's a small price to pay in the long run.  Personally, I make sure I'm in the clear before I curse at games.  If I get kicked out, I'm not going to like it, of course, but I won't argue that it's necessarily wrong.

[Ben Rocky \'04]

This entire forum is composed of opinions.  Im just stating mine, and defending my self.
If an usher tries to kick me out, they're gonna get an earful of more profanity.  My friend Mike fought off an attempt to kick him out in the WMU game for screaming "foster" and having it mistook for "fucker".  The ushers are not bright nor to they seem to think the policy is wrong.  I intend to let them know what i think.

[Will]

Ben Rocky '04 wrote:

This entire forum is composed of opinions.  Im just stating mine, and defending my self.
If an usher tries to kick me out, they're gonna get an earful of more profanity.  My friend Mike fought off an attempt to kick him out in the WMU game for screaming "foster" and having it mistook for "fucker".  The ushers are not bright nor to they seem to think the policy is wrong.  I intend to let them know what i think.

Wonderful!  I am very interested in seeing what you tell Athletics.

[Ben Rocky \'04]

Ill cya at Lynah then.  Im in section G.  where are you?

[Will]

Ben Rocky '04 wrote:

Ill cya at Lynah then.  Im in section G.  where are you?

:-P

[Ben Rocky \'04]

oh yea...... i sit with you....... my bad

[DeltaOne81]

Ben,

Society has a thing called standards. Just because you feel people shouldn't be offended by seeing you walk naked through campus ( "the human body's a beautiful thing!" ), doesn't mean that you're not gonna get your naked ass thrown in jail for exposing your kibbles and bits to the whole student body.

The community has chosen a set of community standards that's a best match to what the average person wants and is most fair to everyone. If you're still on this board 10, 15 years from now with a 4 year old daughter, we'll see if you still can't fathom why parents don't want their children hearing the word 'fuck'.

Try showing up in court one day and saying "I know I signed the contract saying I'd pay them back, and I know there was a verbal agreement, and I know that when you go into the loan department it has the rules displayed in a frame on the wall, but that doesn't mean they should enforce it!"

Come on, if you wanna think you should be able to swear, fine... but that doesn't mean that Lynah doesn't have the right to lay out their own rules and then they have to obligation to support them.

The thing I'll agree with is that the way they enforce them is pretty random. I'll also agree with the fact that people don't really realize it. Sure, it says it in 5 places, but it's said it in 5 places for years and they have often never cared - weeks or months go by without a noticeable tossing. How often does athletics actually follow through on their rules? Remember 'no fish'? How about 4:45 pm? Also, 3/4 of the time they pick out someone in the back row (easier to hear) and toss them, so the other 95% of the section doesn't know anything just happened.

What they *should* do, is have Arthur get everyone's attention (not just the standard ramble at the beginning of the game, but a "may I have your attention please" kinda thing). Laying out the fact that people WILL be tosses, and that Athletics has tossed out an average of xx people per game so far. Coach Schafer and that A.D. want you to loudly support our team with family-friendly language. Do it once a weekend for a semester, or every game for 4 or 6 games, and people'll get the message. But this half-hearted announcement and quiet, arbitrary enforcement doesn't seem fair to the average fan.

P.S. For this crowd, may be better to do it at the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd.



Post Edited (11-12-03 00:08)

[Lowell '99]

[Q]I believe that the acapella to Rock-n-Roll Part 2/Gary Glitter grew out of the profanity crackdown. The AD forbade the band from playing it at the beginning of the 3rd because of the "f*** 'em up, f*** 'em up... I thought it was the '97-'98 season, but somebody please refresh my memory. In any case, the Faithful would have none of that, and all together, began to sing Gary Glitter. Now, it has taken hold, so when the band stops playing once the puck is dropped, the crowd fills in until the next stoppage in play.[/Q]

For the one or two games that the band stopped playing it, yup, the crowd took over.  What also contributed was Schafer bringing the team out much later around 1998-1999... we used to be able to squeeze the whole song in twice through well before the puck was dropped.

[Ken71]

I like to think of myself as a long-time fan of Cornell Hockey, proud of a strong program that's brought us all a lot to cheer about over the 36+ years I've been in Ithaca.  I've been proud of the teams, proud of the coaches and support staff and proud of the fans.

Since my first years here, we've been especially proud of our creativity and fanaticism as fans.  Prospects, coming to visit with their parents, are blown away by the Lynah atmosphere - so many fans at close range in a small space.  Lynah and the Lynah Faithful are things of which we should ALL be proud.   The atmosphere helps "sell" our program to the prospects and their parents.

My opinion (and it's just that) is that vulgarity in the cheers is neither creative nor necessary, and that Coach Schafer is right to ask the fans to cut it out.  It doesn't add to the positive statement that most of us want to make about Cornell Hockey.  He's taking responsibility for a program that we all should want to be proud of, and asking us to keep our language clean enough to be proud of.   That's not asking a lot.

The warnings have been posted and made clear.  The enforcement has been uneven, but the message has been steady - profanity can get you kicked out of Lynah.   It's not that hard to use the cleaner versions of the cheers, and doing so doesn't spoil my evening at the rink.  The Coach asked for our help on this, and I'm willing to go along with his request.  It seems like a pretty small thing to do for a program that continues to mean so much to me.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong...  I'll leave the "Freedom of Speech" arguments to the Moot Court Room and work on creative cheers for Lynah.

Ken '71

[Ben Rocky \'04]

Delta-
As I have stated before, I know there are rules, I know they are printed on the back of my ticket, and I know they are enforced.  I know that it is a private space and that they can and may kick me out and confiscate one of my season tickets.
I've heard about these community "standards" of which you speak of.  I have taken a government or phil class or two that discussed at length the concept of profane speach.  
I was raised in Lynah.  I grew up hearing nasty things being said to the players on the other team.  To be honest, that harsh language that I heard since I was 2 didn't cause cancer or make me a terrible person with no morals and a tendancy to steal or lie or use crack.
I am excercising my right to attack the policy & athletics for :

1) the policy itself as it governs us too much and angers people as a result, leading them to violate it
2) their failure to fairly enforce the policy

They can legally and morally do what they want.  I know I cannot change this, but this forum is for lynah faithful members to state their opinions.
Clearly, a vast majority of former faithful and current townie side ticket holders feel that swearing sets a poor example of our school, and corrupts their wives and children.  
Yea, constant profanity is incredibly moronic, but letting loose sometimes with some expletives doesn't dammage our reputation horrifically.
The concept of swearing being harmful and evil is just a conservatively minded myth. Get over your stupid moral code and worry about bigger problems society has.  Those who whine about harsh langauge being inappropriate for children at hockey games should first worry about how much harm a puck could cause a kid, and then take a step back and see the other problems society has that threaten their children: guns, drugs, bad teachers, child abuse, lead paint, violent video games & movies, crossing streets & alcohol.

All I want is people to realize that swearing is such a foolish issue for athletics to waste their time on.  Kick drunk people out of Lynah, or people who people who throw bottles on the ice, or people who show up a period late for games or shove their way to their seats.  These are real problems, not made up ones.

[ugarte]

Ben Rocky '04 wrote:Get over your stupid moral code and worry about bigger problems society has.  Those who whine about harsh langauge being inappropriate for children at hockey games should first worry about how much harm a puck could cause a kid, and then take a step back and see the other problems society has that threaten their children: guns, drugs, bad teachers, child abuse, lead paint, violent video games & movies, crossing streets & alcohol.

All I want is people to realize that swearing is such a foolish issue for athletics to waste their time on.  Kick drunk people out of Lynah, or people who people who throw bottles on the ice, or people who show up a period late for games or shove their way to their seats.  These are real problems, not made up ones.

Your analogies make no sense.  If I were the mayor my job would be to solve problems like guns, drugs, etc.  If I were the athletic director at a university my job would be, in part, to make sure that the viewing environment at home games was civil and enjoyable for as much of the crowd as possible.  And if I were a volunteer usher at a Cornell hockey game it would be my job to toss out drunks AND people who throw things on the ice AND shove people AND (drum roll) people who can't control themselves enough to keep from cursing at the f'ing rink.

[rsafploc 03]

Well, I have been kicked out of a game before. That was in my freshman year. And yeah.. I did think that it was utterly cruel cause it was tradition and it was part of the lyrics. But to claim that lyrics are an important part of Lynah tradition worth defending doesn't make sense to me anymore. Lynah tradition is showing up for games, believing in your team and of course cheering loudly and creatively.

Ben, I'd be the first to say that I'm no longer one of the other 1000 people you claim are in Lynah that use those vulgarities and get away with it.  B-] Cos I figured it potentially denies me of a chance to cheer my team on.. so why bother and have to make even more noise about it after getting tossed?

Rules are a reflection of generally accepted standards. I personally will be fine either way, with or without the strictness of enforcement. But I do feel that if nothing is done to somewhat control the more than just exuberant lads out there... and if unsuspecting freshies do actually think that it's tradition ::uhoh::  *silly me*.. What kind of message are we trying to give to other people. That the faithful collectively ratifies the use of such language?  These rules don't get in the way of me being able to exercise my rights as a faithful.. That's to cheer my team on...

PS: On a side note.. Creative cheers/chants without any of those magic words are still coming out. My personal fav from the WMU weekend.. "Foster! Australian for Sieve!"



Post Edited (11-12-03 01:58)