Money: Cornellians lost to (and gained from) the portal

[Snowball]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

[adamw]

I was expecting this team to get better for the next two years as this young team got more experience, with Cournoyer as the most important piece.  Losing Cournoyer would be catastrophic.  Hopefully he changes his mind or we can get somebody to pony up some money to match whatever offer he might be leaving for (assuming that's the case?).

Sounds like a bidding war out there. Ivy rules also mean we can't be doing NIL shenanigans. I would be SHOCKED if he came back to Cornell. We'll have more luck scavenging the portal ourselves.

Can the Ivies regulate NIL shenanigans though?  I know the ivies opted out of the settlement that is supposed to establish a ~$20m salary cap, but given the current state of college athletics and the law how can the Ivies restrict "external" NIL agreements?

The Ivies restrict most forms of NIL based off Ivy elitism bullshit. Hence the thing with Penn basketball that they're putting the kids into high-paying internships as essentially a proxy to get them money. That seems to be the predominant way for Ivy athletes to get money without running into Ivy elitism bullshit rules - rumor has it on the forums that Schafer was working on something to that extent as well.

Also, NIL, while short for Name-Image-Likeness, isn't necessarily "paying the player to sponsor stuff" like you'd think it is. At this point it's basically a catchall for "any way a university can pay a player". Again - think the McKenna, Martone, etc deals. Guys like Robertson aren't actually being paid for their Name, Image, or Likeness anywhere, as far as I'm aware.

This is somewhat true - and which is what makes all of this confusing.

Some schools call it "NIL" when it's not. And other schools call it "rev share" when it's not.

For example, there are schools that claim to give out "no NIL" (see: Denver) ... There's no such thing as internal NIL anymore. If that team is opted in, then it falls under the "rev share" rules from the House settlement - i.e. $20.5 million cap, etc...

But some places say "we gave so and so x,y,z NIL" when it's really "rev share" (now, rev share unto itself it somewhat of a misnomer as well, since they're not sharing profit, per se).

Now, some places don't like using the term "rev share" - so they'll say, "We're giving *institutional NIL*" - which is just a euphemism for stuff that's in the rev share bucket.

Then you have Arizona State, which is not giving any rev share to hockey, so that $200k the team raises, or whatever, is basically some form of NIL deal. I really don't have my hands around this at the moment - trying to figure it out.  Talked to ASU coach briefly yesterday and was about to get into this, but he apparently had to spend the rest of the day on conference calls poaching players from other teams.

[adamw]

brief takes:

I never disagreed with BL that Robertson leaving is a bad sign of things to come (not an issue about the player itself) -- what I disagree with is any implication that this is Casey's fault. It's just a coincidence, so to speak, that the coaching change timing coincided with the madness in college sports fully festering. (unlimited transfer + money)  I generally believe Cornell will be, overall, LESS affected by the transfers - but to say they will be - or should be - totally immune is not realistic. The landscape is INSANE!!

Cournoyer actually had pretty pedestrian analytics last season. His xGa+ was nothing really. +1.02 ... The leaders were at +30 ... Cornell will be fine in that department, somehow.

I'd expect to hear some new "recruits"/transfers soon. Goalie or otherwise.

If I had to give a reason not to freak out about Cournoyer, it's that - Casey was desperate for a goalie last summer, and dipped into the Q pool to snatch Cournoyer. It was a bit of a coup, but it also meant that maybe Cournoyer wasn't a "true Ivy guy" - i.e. it wasn't something he'd targeted, and he's not a great student, etc... (just conjecture). This is the risk, however, with the constant churn.

Expanding on above, I generally believe Cornell will be fine talent wise with who it brings in vs. who goes out. The issue is more the churn, and how that affects continuity, and thus how that hurts a team's potential for that season, on a national scale. However, this is far from just a Cornell problem.

Quentin Miller, though intriguing, is likely a guy looking for a big place for 1 year, before going pro. So that may not be a good idea.

[stereax]

poaching players from other teams.

LOL. Thanks for the breakdown 💜

[stereax]

Quentin Miller, though intriguing, is likely a guy looking for a big place for 1 year, before going pro. So that may not be a good idea.

It depends, imo. I think if you can land a goalie like that for one year (pedigree and good numbers, desperate for a scenery change), you do it anyway, even if you know it's a one-year deal, so to speak. If he doesn't want to come here though and wants a "big name", he can go chase that and we'll see about someone else. Agreed that overall though you want people here who want to be here for 3-4 years.

The point about Courns's GSAx is intriguing though. Essentially you're saying he was basically NCAA league average. That... bodes really well for us, actually - just need to find a League Average kid and press play.

[BearLover]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

Right, but to me, the Robertson transfer was the canary in the coal mine.

Anyway, if people want to take their outrage and shift that energy towards something productive, a few things come to mind:

• write a letter to the Ivy League administrators about how allowing grad transfers would further the educational goals of the league. Lack of 5th year eligible players will kill us once that becomes the new rule. Staff directory here: https://ivyleague.com/staff-directory
• reach out to Casey and ask his thoughts on the new college climate and how he sees Cornell keeping up. Ask him what is fans can do to help. It may tie in with the next bullet point...
• look into what Penn basketball did, since this seems to be the only precedent for a successful model of paying players in the Ivy League. What are the details of their arrangements? A key point here is that it's orders of magnitude more expensive to pay players in basketball than in hockey - so to the extent Penn boosters have successfully accomplished this, it could be ported to hockey for relatively cheap. The other key point is that outside of big state schools, American universities tend to be broke af. The Ivies are the exception. If we actually instituted an NIL program we'd have more money than almost anyone outside the Big 10

[BearLover]

Highly doubt we're competitive for Quentin Mille and at this point I'm not even sure we want to play this game...

[adamw]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

Right, but to me, the Robertson transfer was the canary in the coal mine.

Anyway, if people want to take their outrage and shift that energy towards something productive, a few things come to mind:

• write a letter to the Ivy League administrators about how allowing grad transfers would further the educational goals of the league. Lack of 5th year eligible players will kill us once that becomes the new rule. Staff directory here: https://ivyleague.com/staff-directory
• reach out to Casey and ask his thoughts on the new college climate and how he sees Cornell keeping up. Ask him what is fans can do to help. It may tie in with the next bullet point...
• look into what Penn basketball did, since this seems to be the only precedent for a successful model of paying players in the Ivy League. What are the details of their arrangements? A key point here is that it's orders of magnitude more expensive to pay players in basketball than in hockey - so to the extent Penn boosters have successfully accomplished this, it could be ported to hockey for relatively cheap. The other key point is that outside of big state schools, American universities tend to be broke af. The Ivies are the exception. If we actually instituted an NIL program we'd have more money than almost anyone outside the Big 10

My understanding is that Cornell is, or will be, partaking in the last bullet point.  Casey will certainly unturn any rock to do what needs to be done.  It's just the landscape is a bloody disaster right now, so it will not be pretty.

[marty]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

Was three years until the 70's.  Then four and now one, two, three or four.  Liked the three and four year progression.

[BearLover]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

Right, but to me, the Robertson transfer was the canary in the coal mine.

Anyway, if people want to take their outrage and shift that energy towards something productive, a few things come to mind:

• write a letter to the Ivy League administrators about how allowing grad transfers would further the educational goals of the league. Lack of 5th year eligible players will kill us once that becomes the new rule. Staff directory here: https://ivyleague.com/staff-directory
• reach out to Casey and ask his thoughts on the new college climate and how he sees Cornell keeping up. Ask him what is fans can do to help. It may tie in with the next bullet point...
• look into what Penn basketball did, since this seems to be the only precedent for a successful model of paying players in the Ivy League. What are the details of their arrangements? A key point here is that it's orders of magnitude more expensive to pay players in basketball than in hockey - so to the extent Penn boosters have successfully accomplished this, it could be ported to hockey for relatively cheap. The other key point is that outside of big state schools, American universities tend to be broke af. The Ivies are the exception. If we actually instituted an NIL program we'd have more money than almost anyone outside the Big 10

My understanding is that Cornell is, or will be, partaking in the last bullet point.  Casey will certainly unturn any rock to do what needs to be done.  It's just the landscape is a bloody disaster right now, so it will not be pretty.

I'm not expecting you to reveal your sources, but to my knowledge, the times Casey and Schafer have spoken about this, it's mostly been passing references in internal meetings with program boosters. In practice, it seems hard to pull off - you'd need (1) rich boosters (2) with the authority and desire to hire Cornell hockey players and (3) the ability to guarantee them a high salary for a summer internship. That's why I'm curious how Penn basketball is doing it, if they even are.

[BearLover]

I would guess that the delay in Cournoyer entering the portal, and any new portal commits being announced, would be due to the Ivies' more involved procedures for transferring into and out of the schools.

 

[ugarte]

If I squint, things are the same so I'm going to argue that they are the same. How come you aren't treating them like they're the same? I see you've pointed out differnces that matter to you but what if I counter that those aren't differences and repeat myself?

[Cornell troll]

I need to learn not to be too attached to individual players. It sucks. Almost like I want the team to be mediocre filled with mediocre players in the hopes that no one leaves and everyone finishes their degrees.

[stereax]

I would guess that the delay in Cournoyer entering the portal, and any new portal commits being announced, would be due to the Ivies' more involved procedures for transferring into and out of the schools.

 

Didn't Dartmouth get that kid from Brown almost instantly, though?

[BearLover]

If I squint, things are the same so I'm going to argue that they are the same. How come you aren't treating them like they're the same? I see you've pointed out differnces that matter to you but what if I counter that those aren't differences and repeat myself?

I assume you're subtweeting me but I think it's pretty clear that two of our best players fleeing a winning program to go to the Big 10 in consecutive years are similar in numerous important ways and that this completely new development in the history of Cornell hockey is looking more like the start of a trend.