Money: Cornellians lost to (and gained from) the portal

[BearLover]

By far the most shocking thing in those quotes is that it sounds like he didn't provide any advance warning that he'd enter the portal? That's the way the story is written. I have a hard time believing that could be true.

According to head coach Casey Jones '90, the move initially "blindsided" him and his staff, who had not anticipated losing their starting goaltender. Upon speaking with Cournoyer in the wake of his entering the portal, it was evident that the program and the goaltender had different understandings of what the future held.

I mean Adam told us basically how it went a week ago. Makes sense that they WERE blindsided, honestly.

I think we all thought the staff didn't know he'd leave until after the season ended, but the article makes it sound like the coaches may have been in the dark right up until he entered the portal, even though there was a 2.5 week gap in between Cornell's last game and the portal opening.

[adamw]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

I think it's pretty clear that if he doesn't care about the degree and is ready to jump ship to the pros ASAP, he'd rather be someplace that has the B1G's NIL budget, scholarship generosity and academic support (TAs who will take his exams). I don't know if Cornell's coaching/schedule came into it at all but it seems secondary. I honestly doubt that MTL cares very much which program he was at. 

That's true but it seems relevant which of those purported reasons was decisive. It's vague as to which of the following affected his decision and to what degree:
—he wanted more of a challenge (I suspect it's not this but that's basically the answer he gave to the Wisconsin journalist)
-money, whether scholarship or NIL (not mentioned in either of the articles but could of course be a reason)
-he didn't want to go to school (sort of alluded to by Casey but only if you squint)

I know people roll their eyes when I harp on this stuff but it's a lot different if a kid is dipping because he has to pay tuition versus because he thinks the ECAC is weak versus because he isn't a serious student. Yeah the answer could be "all of the above" but in terms of future recruiting it's good to know why a player like this would leave Cornell when so many other good players do not. The coaching staff got burned and it'd be nice to not have that happen again.

roll my eyes is one way to say it ... I mean, if you think the definition of journalism is forcing a run-of-the-mill college hockey player to confess, on the record, all of his deep thoughts about why he transferred, just to satisfy the burning curiosity of 10 people who absolutely need to know or it will kill them ... then ... good luck waiting on that.

You've been given way more to infer on this one case, either by my comments here or Jane's articles, than 99.9% of all the other 200 kids that transferred last week and pissed off the fans/coaches of the place they left.

She had Casey on the record. I was hopeful this would reveal more than we already knew, but it didn't. Not expecting her to grill Cournoyer, obviously. I think Jane is a promising journalist and the Sun's hockey coverage has been great, to be clear. But people wanted to know why he transferred and it's still extremely murky.

Do you honestly expect Casey to trash a kid on the record, or that it would be a good idea if he did?

I mean, this goes for every other coach too.

"Well, the kid is clueless, he lied to us in his meeting and then had his agent start calling around. Turns out he wasn't a good student and he decided he wanted the money more than a Cornell education."

What would be the benefit in a coach saying something like this? Assuming this is true.

[stereax]

By far the most shocking thing in those quotes is that it sounds like he didn't provide any advance warning that he'd enter the portal? That's the way the story is written. I have a hard time believing that could be true.

According to head coach Casey Jones '90, the move initially "blindsided" him and his staff, who had not anticipated losing their starting goaltender. Upon speaking with Cournoyer in the wake of his entering the portal, it was evident that the program and the goaltender had different understandings of what the future held.

I mean Adam told us basically how it went a week ago. Makes sense that they WERE blindsided, honestly.

I think we all thought the staff didn't know he'd leave until after the season ended, but the article makes it sound like the coaches may have been in the dark right up until he entered the portal, even though there was a 2.5 week gap in between Cornell's last game and the portal opening.

I mean even IF they had that 2.5 weeks that's still pretty blindsiding. And it definitely sounds like the coaches weren't aware that much earlier than we were. If Wisconsin was looking for a goalie in the portal, they would only seriously be doing that looking after the Frozen Four - i.e. April 11ish.

[BearLover]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

I think it's pretty clear that if he doesn't care about the degree and is ready to jump ship to the pros ASAP, he'd rather be someplace that has the B1G's NIL budget, scholarship generosity and academic support (TAs who will take his exams). I don't know if Cornell's coaching/schedule came into it at all but it seems secondary. I honestly doubt that MTL cares very much which program he was at. 

That's true but it seems relevant which of those purported reasons was decisive. It's vague as to which of the following affected his decision and to what degree:
—he wanted more of a challenge (I suspect it's not this but that's basically the answer he gave to the Wisconsin journalist)
-money, whether scholarship or NIL (not mentioned in either of the articles but could of course be a reason)
-he didn't want to go to school (sort of alluded to by Casey but only if you squint)

I know people roll their eyes when I harp on this stuff but it's a lot different if a kid is dipping because he has to pay tuition versus because he thinks the ECAC is weak versus because he isn't a serious student. Yeah the answer could be "all of the above" but in terms of future recruiting it's good to know why a player like this would leave Cornell when so many other good players do not. The coaching staff got burned and it'd be nice to not have that happen again.

roll my eyes is one way to say it ... I mean, if you think the definition of journalism is forcing a run-of-the-mill college hockey player to confess, on the record, all of his deep thoughts about why he transferred, just to satisfy the burning curiosity of 10 people who absolutely need to know or it will kill them ... then ... good luck waiting on that.

You've been given way more to infer on this one case, either by my comments here or Jane's articles, than 99.9% of all the other 200 kids that transferred last week and pissed off the fans/coaches of the place they left.

She had Casey on the record. I was hopeful this would reveal more than we already knew, but it didn't. Not expecting her to grill Cournoyer, obviously. I think Jane is a promising journalist and the Sun's hockey coverage has been great, to be clear. But people wanted to know why he transferred and it's still extremely murky.

Do you honestly expect Casey to trash a kid on the record, or that it would be a good idea if he did?

I mean, this goes for every other coach too.

"Well, the kid is clueless, he lied to us in his meeting and then had his agent start calling around. Turns out he wasn't a good student and he decided he wanted the money more than a Cornell education."

What would be the benefit in a coach saying something like this? Assuming this is true.

I would have asked: "Did Cournoyer provide a reason for transferring?" and "when did he inform you of the transfer?", to start. You're gonna get coach-speak either way, but at least this way we'd get more specificity while not forcing Casey to disclose anything he doesn't want to. 

[ugarte]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

I think it's pretty clear that if he doesn't care about the degree and is ready to jump ship to the pros ASAP, he'd rather be someplace that has the B1G's NIL budget, scholarship generosity and academic support (TAs who will take his exams). I don't know if Cornell's coaching/schedule came into it at all but it seems secondary. I honestly doubt that MTL cares very much which program he was at. 

That's true but it seems relevant which of those purported reasons was decisive. It's vague as to which of the following affected his decision and to what degree:
—he wanted more of a challenge (I suspect it's not this but that's basically the answer he gave to the Wisconsin journalist)
-money, whether scholarship or NIL (not mentioned in either of the articles but could of course be a reason)
-he didn't want to go to school (sort of alluded to by Casey but only if you squint)

I know people roll their eyes when I harp on this stuff but it's a lot different if a kid is dipping because he has to pay tuition versus because he thinks the ECAC is weak versus because he isn't a serious student. Yeah the answer could be "all of the above" but in terms of future recruiting it's good to know why a player like this would leave Cornell when so many other good players do not. The coaching staff got burned and it'd be nice to not have that happen again.

roll my eyes is one way to say it ... I mean, if you think the definition of journalism is forcing a run-of-the-mill college hockey player to confess, on the record, all of his deep thoughts about why he transferred, just to satisfy the burning curiosity of 10 people who absolutely need to know or it will kill them ... then ... good luck waiting on that.

You've been given way more to infer on this one case, either by my comments here or Jane's articles, than 99.9% of all the other 200 kids that transferred last week and pissed off the fans/coaches of the place they left.

She had Casey on the record. I was hopeful this would reveal more than we already knew, but it didn't. Not expecting her to grill Cournoyer, obviously. I think Jane is a promising journalist and the Sun's hockey coverage has been great, to be clear. But people wanted to know why he transferred and it's still extremely murky.

Do you honestly expect Casey to trash a kid on the record, or that it would be a good idea if he did?

I mean, this goes for every other coach too.

"Well, the kid is clueless, he lied to us in his meeting and then had his agent start calling around. Turns out he wasn't a good student and he decided he wanted the money more than a Cornell education."

What would be the benefit in a coach saying something like this? Assuming this is true.

I would have asked: "Did Cournoyer provide a reason for transferring?" and "when did he inform you of the transfer?", to start. You're gonna get coach-speak either way, but at least this way we'd get more specificity while not forcing Casey to disclose anything he doesn't want to. 

I think you get the exact same answer. Jane can't put Casey under oath.

[fastforward]

There comes a point where the coach just needs to accept the fact and let the player walk away, and devote the energy to finding a replacement.

Us on the outside have no way of knowing what the vibe was with this player in the locker room or outside of the locker room.

[andyw2100]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

If I had to guess, I think a huge part of it may be Cournoyer's belief in himself that he will win the starting spot at Wisconsin (in spite of the quote he gave about Hauser pushing him.) If, on the other hand, he really believes that he'll be splitting time with Hauser then I'd say he's either pretty damn short-sighted, or other factors (academics, as others have suggested) were in play.

[Trotsky]

I doubt it's academics.  UW-Madison is not a bad university at all.  It's on par with the better large state universities (UNC, Michigan, UT-Austin, Washington, Cal). I suspect the places to stash a rockhead there are no easier than Hotel and Ag Ec with us.

[arugula]

Also, Cornell was a good spot for him as he was playing well and presumably getting good coaching. Though, I don't have a sense for what our goaltending coaching is like.

now you're starting to get it.

are you implying our goalie coaching is bad?

Under Schaf iinm there was no dedicated goalie coach at all.

[stereax]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

If I had to guess, I think a huge part of it may be Cournoyer's belief in himself that he will win the starting spot at Wisconsin (in spite of the quote he gave about Hauser pushing him.) If, on the other hand, he really believes that he'll be splitting time with Hauser then I'd say he's either pretty damn short-sighted, or other factors (academics, as others have suggested) were in play.

Yeah, but... he owned the net at Cornell. I understand the belief that he'll win the starting spot at Wisconsin but he already had one here. Which is why everyone is speculating around it. If it were Roest or Katz transferring, nobody would care this much, because we'd know they were transferring due to not getting playing time here.

[arugula]

That part I got. But his reasoning for transferring is what I want to know, and that is still a mystery. Did he transfer because he though Wisconsin would give him a better opportunity to sign pro? Because he was struggling in school/didn't want to go to class anymore? "He only cares about hockey" seems clear, but why transfer? I can think of several reasons, but we don't have much clarity as to the ones that led to the decision, other than maybe a vague allusion to the "education" bit.

I think it's pretty clear that if he doesn't care about the degree and is ready to jump ship to the pros ASAP, he'd rather be someplace that has the B1G's NIL budget, scholarship generosity and academic support (TAs who will take his exams). I don't know if Cornell's coaching/schedule came into it at all but it seems secondary. I honestly doubt that MTL cares very much which program he was at. 

That's true but it seems relevant which of those purported reasons was decisive. It's vague as to which of the following affected his decision and to what degree:
—he wanted more of a challenge (I suspect it's not this but that's basically the answer he gave to the Wisconsin journalist)
-money, whether scholarship or NIL (not mentioned in either of the articles but could of course be a reason)
-he didn't want to go to school (sort of alluded to by Casey but only if you squint)

I know people roll their eyes when I harp on this stuff but it's a lot different if a kid is dipping because he has to pay tuition versus because he thinks the ECAC is weak versus because he isn't a serious student. Yeah the answer could be "all of the above" but in terms of future recruiting it's good to know why a player like this would leave Cornell when so many other good players do not. The coaching staff got burned and it'd be nice to not have that happen again.

roll my eyes is one way to say it ... I mean, if you think the definition of journalism is forcing a run-of-the-mill college hockey player to confess, on the record, all of his deep thoughts about why he transferred, just to satisfy the burning curiosity of 10 people who absolutely need to know or it will kill them ... then ... good luck waiting on that.

You've been given way more to infer on this one case, either by my comments here or Jane's articles, than 99.9% of all the other 200 kids that transferred last week and pissed off the fans/coaches of the place they left.

She had Casey on the record. I was hopeful this would reveal more than we already knew, but it didn't. Not expecting her to grill Cournoyer, obviously. I think Jane is a promising journalist and the Sun's hockey coverage has been great, to be clear. But people wanted to know why he transferred and it's still extremely murky.

Not sure I agree.  As a lawyer, when I cross examine someone, it's not Perry Mason, you get stuff at the margins.  Same thing here.  From the quotes Jane got, seems clear that Casey is annoyed, Cournoyer is not a fit for Cornell and he was interested in a different college experience.  That's plenty of intel.  No one is going to roll over and confess confess confess or, alternately, make anyone look terrible. 

[stereax]

Not sure I agree.  As a lawyer, when I cross examine someone, it's not Perry Mason, you get stuff at the margins.  Same thing here.  From the quotes Jane got, seems clear that Casey is annoyed, Cournoyer is not a fit for Cornell and he was interested in a different college experience.  That's plenty of intel.  No one is going to roll over and confess confess confess or, alternately, make anyone look terrible. 

Ding ding ding. It's in nobody's interest to throw anyone else under the bus, but Arugula's right here in that you can tell basically what happened - Courns doesn't want a Cornell degree/connections, he hopped to the "next level" (probably in some assumption that he's going to end up as the starter), Casey's really pissed that they got jumped with this, but he found someone else who seems to value the Cornell prestige more and that's something they take seriously about their recruits, now and moving forward, that they want to be here for the academics/career opportunities, not only as a stepping stone to the NHL. (Obviously, you wouldn't say the same about guys like Castagna and Stanley, who were both academically sharp from all accounts and valued the Cornell program and identity, plus gave 3 years to it [and likely will finish their degrees at some point] - I think this is more about not taking "mercenaries".)

[ugarte]

I doubt it's academics.  UW-Madison is not a bad university at all.  It's on par with the better large state universities (UNC, Michigan, UT-Austin, Washington, Cal). I suspect the places to stash a rockhead there are no easier than Hotel and Ag Ec with us.

The opportunity to have an education on par with Cornell is readily available at Wisconsin. If you are a sought after athlete at such a school there is not a ton of pressure to take advantage of that opportunity.

[BearLover]

I doubt it's academics.  UW-Madison is not a bad university at all.  It's on par with the better large state universities (UNC, Michigan, UT-Austin, Washington, Cal). I suspect the places to stash a rockhead there are no easier than Hotel and Ag Ec with us.

This may have been true when you were a Cornell student (no idea), but it's certainly not true today. If you are dumb and don't try you'll get a bad grade in any class at Cornell. "Stash a rockhead" classes are certainly much easier and more plentiful at a giant state school with big-time athletics than at an Ivy which does not cater to athletes at all.

[Weder]

I doubt it's academics.  UW-Madison is not a bad university at all.  It's on par with the better large state universities (UNC, Michigan, UT-Austin, Washington, Cal). I suspect the places to stash a rockhead there are no easier than Hotel and Ag Ec with us.

This may have been true when you were a Cornell student (no idea), but it's certainly not true today. If you are dumb and don't try you'll get a bad grade in any class at Cornell. "Stash a rockhead" classes are certainly much easier and plentiful at a giant state school with big-time athletics than at an Ivy which does not cater to athletes at all.

One thing I never looked into at Cornell is what the various colleges' rules are around taking classes with the S/U option. I used it strategically with electives, because I didn't care that much about my GPA since I wasn't planning to apply to grad school. But in theory, could an athlete take a ton of classes outside their major S/U for a little wiggle room or are there NCAA eligibility rules that would limit this?