Money: Cornellians lost to (and gained from) the portal

[underskill]

Offer him an internship STAT

[BearLover]

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

[scoop85]

But why is Cournoyer in there?

Trying to double dip?

[stereax]

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

[BearLover]

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

Judging by the number of schools who have an NIL collective but no NIL money, I'm doubtful. It's good that this exists, but it doesn't change the reality of needing to find rich folks to start heavily contributing. Sounds hard to accomplish in practice. But if anyone here is rich and/or knows rich people who care about Cornell sports, now is your chance!

[stereax]

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

Judging by the number of schools who have an NIL collective but no NIL money, I'm doubtful. It's good that this exists, but it doesn't change the reality of needing to find rich folks to start heavily contributing. Sounds hard to accomplish in practice. But if anyone here is rich and/or knows rich people who care about Cornell sports, now is your chance!

The thing is, Cornell has a lot of pretty rich alumni, many of whom like Cornell hockey. Hell, didn't Gary Fucking Bettman donate to renovate Lynah? I'm sure people will be found.

[adamw]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

[ugarte]

If I squint, things are the same so I'm going to argue that they are the same. How come you aren't treating them like they're the same? I see you've pointed out differnces that matter to you but what if I counter that those aren't differences and repeat myself?

I assume you're subtweeting me but I think it's pretty clear that two of our best players fleeing a winning program to go to the Big 10 in consecutive years are similar in numerous important ways and that this completely new development in the history of Cornell hockey is looking more like the start of a trend.

true, but it's a trend you keep denying exists! you seem to think NIL is de minimis and then ipse dixit it into blaming casey plus laying on pure lorem ipsum and other atinlay ingsthay

[Bluelightning]

   We are trying to do things the right way. Hopefully all the blue blood schools are on the "up and up" also. We are always in a fist fight but we wear handcuffs.
   Pretty soon the usher at Lynah will be passing a plate  down the rows like church.

[BearLover]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

Judging by the number of schools who have an NIL collective but no NIL money, I'm doubtful. It's good that this exists, but it doesn't change the reality of needing to find rich folks to start heavily contributing. Sounds hard to accomplish in practice. But if anyone here is rich and/or knows rich people who care about Cornell sports, now is your chance!

The thing is, Cornell has a lot of pretty rich alumni, many of whom like Cornell hockey. Hell, didn't Gary Fucking Bettman donate to renovate Lynah? I'm sure people will be found.

It's one thing to get a one-time donation from Gary Bettman to contribute towards renovating Lynah, but it's quite another thing to convince Gary Bettman to donate tens of thousands of dollars every season to paying Cornell players. I imagine Gary Bettman spends little to no time thinking about Cornell Hockey.

That's problem #1: finding rich people willing to contribute continuously without donor fatigue.

Problem #2 is satisfying Ivy and NCAA rules regarding legitimate NIL. All payments over $600 are subject to NIL clearinghouse approval that the payment is for a "valid business purpose" commensurate with the payout. The Ivy rules against pay-for-play are probably even more onerous. The Ivies must approve any that any NIL deal above $2,000, and I'm sure they'll be looking at these harder than the clearinghouse.

Problem #3 is coordination. Here again the Ivy League has gotten in the way: "The eight Ivy athletic departments will begin signing attestations of independence for payments to athletes over $2,000 for an athlete's name, image, and likeness. An attestation of independence, in this context, is a signed document that claims that a NIL deal with an outside donor was not brokered by the signing institution's athletic department in any way." So it seems the Cornell athletic department and coaches can't "broker" NIL deals. It's not entire clear what "broker" means - can Casey hook a Cornell player up with a finance CEO, who herself brokers a deal? Or would any involvement by Casey whatsoever run afoul of this rule?

Hypothetical: we need to pay Cournoyer $50,000 to stay. To pass all the above tests, we'd need an extremely rich donor  devoted to Cornell hockey. That donor would need to arrange some type of deal with Cournoyer that pays him $50,000 in exchange for $50,000 worth of services (legitimate NIL). And all this must be arranged without Casey's involvement. Each of these three steps seems like a very big hurdle to me.

[ugarte]

Hypothetical: we need to pay Cournoyer $50,000 to stay. To pass all the above tests, we'd need an extremely rich donor  devoted to Cornell hockey. That donor would need to arrange some type of deal with Cournoyer that pays him $50,000 in exchange for $50,000 worth of services (legitimate NIL). And all this must be arranged without Casey's involvement. Each of these three steps seems like a very big hurdle to me.

Again, that's only true if there's someone else who can and will pay the money which you keep declining to believe unless adam responds to your document subpoena.

[stereax]

We are trying to do things the right way. Hopefully all the blue blood schools are on the "up and up" also. We are always in a fist fight but we wear handcuffs.
  Pretty soon the usher at Lynah will be passing a plate  down the rows like church.

on senior night the scratches cross the pews of lynah with tip jars

[Bluelightning]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

Judging by the number of schools who have an NIL collective but no NIL money, I'm doubtful. It's good that this exists, but it doesn't change the reality of needing to find rich folks to start heavily contributing. Sounds hard to accomplish in practice. But if anyone here is rich and/or knows rich people who care about Cornell sports, now is your chance!

The thing is, Cornell has a lot of pretty rich alumni, many of whom like Cornell hockey. Hell, didn't Gary Fucking Bettman donate to renovate Lynah? I'm sure people will be found.

It's one thing to get a one-time donation from Gary Bettman to contribute towards renovating Lynah, but it's quite another thing to convince Gary Bettman to donate tens of thousands of dollars every season to paying Cornell players. I imagine Gary Bettman spends little to no time thinking about Cornell Hockey.

That's problem #1: finding rich people willing to contribute continuously without donor fatigue.

Problem #2 is satisfying Ivy and NCAA rules regarding legitimate NIL. All payments over $600 are subject to NIL clearinghouse approval that the payment is for a "valid business purpose" commensurate with the payout. The Ivy rules against pay-for-play are probably even more onerous. The Ivies must approve any that any NIL deal above $2,000, and I'm sure they'll be looking at these harder than the clearinghouse.

Problem #3 is coordination. Here again the Ivy League has gotten in the way: "The eight Ivy athletic departments will begin signing attestations of independence for payments to athletes over $2,000 for an athlete's name, image, and likeness. An attestation of independence, in this context, is a signed document that claims that a NIL deal with an outside donor was not brokered by the signing institution's athletic department in any way." So it seems the Cornell athletic department and coaches can't "broker" NIL deals. It's not entire clear what "broker" means - can Casey hook a Cornell player up with a finance CEO, who herself brokers a deal? Or would any involvement by Casey whatsoever run afoul of this rule?

Hypothetical: we need to pay Cournoyer $50,000 to stay. To pass all the above tests, we'd need an extremely rich donor  devoted to Cornell hockey. That donor would need to arrange some type of deal with Cournoyer that pays him $50,000 in exchange for $50,000 worth of services (legitimate NIL). And all this must be arranged without Casey's involvement. Each of these three steps seems like a very big hurdle to me.

Is this $50,000/season or once?

[BigRedLaw]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Ivy or not, how can the Ivy League stop a donor from paying one of our players to do some advertising for them, billboards, Instagram, commercials, a few de minimus appearances during the school year (in a manner that is only feasible if they are in Ithaca), etc.

I'm far from an expert on this, but have followed the college athlete litigation a decent amount.  The Ivy League can't get around the court decisions on NIL even if they don't/didn't opt into the settlement in the case relating to revenue sharing.

There's logistical issues in terms of the ability to coordinate with Ivy League teams about how to spend or use NIL, but I dont see a path for the League to prevent alumni from taking independent action to dissuade individual players from transferring.

Whether that will happen in practice is a fair question, but shrugging our shoulders because of the Ivy League is an oversimplification of the issue.

(This isn't meant to be an attack on or dismissal of anybody's individual comments, just trying to further discussion and understand this issue).

EDIT:  I'm seeing additional posts that were just made that may address this.

[BearLover]

Hypothetical: we need to pay Cournoyer $50,000 to stay. To pass all the above tests, we'd need an extremely rich donor  devoted to Cornell hockey. That donor would need to arrange some type of deal with Cournoyer that pays him $50,000 in exchange for $50,000 worth of services (legitimate NIL). And all this must be arranged without Casey's involvement. Each of these three steps seems like a very big hurdle to me.

Again, that's only true if there's someone else who can and will pay the money which you keep declining to believe unless adam responds to your document subpoena.

First of all, that's not true. Cournoyer may want to leave for other reasons, but in my hypothetical $50K would overpower those reasons (e.g. a scholarship at Michigan).
Second, I have never denied NIL exists at all and in fact I've numerous times told Adam I could totally believe the best transfers are getting offered $50K (which is why I used this amount). $50K for the very best transfers is in line with NIL existing in college hockey but being a relatively minor factor in the scheme of things.
Third, my arguments have centered on non-Power 4 schools, not the Big 10, which very clearly could pay players a lot of money if they wanted to.