Money: Cornellians lost to (and gained from) the portal

[BearLover]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

It's better to launch an NIL collective than to not have one at all, but most teams have one, including Brown, and the mere existence of one doesn't really mean anything. What matters is whether rich donors are pumping money into it.

Sure... but I suspect there will be money pumped once word gets out.

Judging by the number of schools who have an NIL collective but no NIL money, I'm doubtful. It's good that this exists, but it doesn't change the reality of needing to find rich folks to start heavily contributing. Sounds hard to accomplish in practice. But if anyone here is rich and/or knows rich people who care about Cornell sports, now is your chance!

The thing is, Cornell has a lot of pretty rich alumni, many of whom like Cornell hockey. Hell, didn't Gary Fucking Bettman donate to renovate Lynah? I'm sure people will be found.

It's one thing to get a one-time donation from Gary Bettman to contribute towards renovating Lynah, but it's quite another thing to convince Gary Bettman to donate tens of thousands of dollars every season to paying Cornell players. I imagine Gary Bettman spends little to no time thinking about Cornell Hockey.

That's problem #1: finding rich people willing to contribute continuously without donor fatigue.

Problem #2 is satisfying Ivy and NCAA rules regarding legitimate NIL. All payments over $600 are subject to NIL clearinghouse approval that the payment is for a "valid business purpose" commensurate with the payout. The Ivy rules against pay-for-play are probably even more onerous. The Ivies must approve any that any NIL deal above $2,000, and I'm sure they'll be looking at these harder than the clearinghouse.

Problem #3 is coordination. Here again the Ivy League has gotten in the way: "The eight Ivy athletic departments will begin signing attestations of independence for payments to athletes over $2,000 for an athlete's name, image, and likeness. An attestation of independence, in this context, is a signed document that claims that a NIL deal with an outside donor was not brokered by the signing institution's athletic department in any way." So it seems the Cornell athletic department and coaches can't "broker" NIL deals. It's not entire clear what "broker" means - can Casey hook a Cornell player up with a finance CEO, who herself brokers a deal? Or would any involvement by Casey whatsoever run afoul of this rule?

Hypothetical: we need to pay Cournoyer $50,000 to stay. To pass all the above tests, we'd need an extremely rich donor  devoted to Cornell hockey. That donor would need to arrange some type of deal with Cournoyer that pays him $50,000 in exchange for $50,000 worth of services (legitimate NIL). And all this must be arranged without Casey's involvement. Each of these three steps seems like a very big hurdle to me.

Is this $50,000/season or once?

It's a made-up number. I happened to choose it because Adam has previously referenced some top transfers getting offered this much. (FWIW I saw elsewhere that Ryan Conmy, one of last year's top transfers, got $30K.)

[Trotsky]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

It also breaks the connection between the students and the players.  The idea of college sports was "One of Us."  If it's just hired guns like Kentucky basketball, why would anybody care?  It would be like rooting for the endowment.

[BearLover]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

It also breaks the connection between the students and the players.  The idea of college sports was "One of Us."  If it's just hired guns like Kentucky basketball, why would anybody care?  It would be like rooting for the endowment.

I completely agree with this. It is the consequence of the end of amateurism.

[Trotsky]

Think summer recruiting visits to my buddy's house on Cayuga would help?

If your buddy is Nieuwendyk.

[stereax]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

It also breaks the connection between the students and the players.  The idea of college sports was "One of Us."  If it's just hired guns like Kentucky basketball, why would anybody care?  It would be like rooting for the endowment.

I completely agree with this. It is the consequence of the end of amateurism.

[Bluelightning]

So hypothetically: CEO of widget factory ponies up $50k for Cournoyer for the 2026-27 season. It has to be completely "buyer beware". He might play awful...Casey has to bench him. Or maybe he gets in trouble with the law, and widget boss has to pony up to DA to slap him in the wrist (happens a lot in major college football schools). Or maybe he plays very well, and towards end of season he doesn't want to risk injury so he can get even more $$ next offseason. So he has phantom injury in ECAC tournament . He will need an agent to field all the offers...right now everyone is a free agent every year.

[BigRedLaw]

Wow, much bigger freakout by the non-BL posters in response to this news than when Robertson ditched last year. Why is that?

What I actually enjoy most about Cornell hockey isn't the chance for an NCAA run, though that's always fun, it's the season itself. The rhythm, watching a roster grow up together. Seeing freshmen turn into real players (Charlie Major!) and lines develop real chemistry over time.

If roster churn becomes constant, it's basically free agency every offseason. That continuity is gone and with it, a big piece of what made this program endearing.

It also breaks the connection between the students and the players.  The idea of college sports was "One of Us."  If it's just hired guns like Kentucky basketball, why would anybody care?  It would be like rooting for the endowment.

I completely agree with this. It is the consequence of the end of amateurism.

Thirded.  I can handle players getting paid (albeit preferably not the insane amounts we see in football and basketball) but constant transfers and sham "students"-athletes will kill my love for this sport, just as it is doing for most of ncaa football/bball.

I'd even be alright if we weren't competitive for the national tournament.  I love Cornell hockey for the atmosphere, rivalries, high level play and passion.  If we have continuity in our teams and are competing for/winning the ECAC, that's the majority of what I watch for and enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a Frozen Four appearance and national title (more than any other pro or college sport), but the biggest threat in my eyes is being unable to keep players season over season and/or seeing teams turn into a bunch of mercenaries that'll jump ship without a second thought.

[stereax]

Agreed with all of you above. The special part of Cornell hockey is watching the men and women blossom year-on-year, rooting for your own, and forming memories that won't fade away.

I don't mind transfers if they're genuine - if they're looking for ice time, or a greater role they won't get at Cornell. Things like that, I understand. I even understand transferring for money if you're concerned about your ability to pay for future years at Cornell - which is what NIL should ideally help alleviate. But if we're moving, slowly but surely, to a "highest bidder" system... it's gonna be tough to watch.

[andyw2100]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Exactly this.

I don't think I am violating any expectation of privacy by saying that at one of the Coach's Club luncheons, when Casey was talking about the concept of paid internships, he pointed out that the pay had to be commensurate with typical intern pay. So even if a rich alum were willing to pay a player $30K for a summer internship, that just can't happen.

And because of that, while I think the internship idea is nice, and could make the difference for some recruits between a program that has it and one that doesn't, it's not going to be the kind of game-changer that results in guys like Cournoyer not entering the portal.

[BearLover]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Exactly this.

I don't think I am violating any expectation of privacy by saying that at one of the Coach's Club luncheons, when Casey was talking about the concept of paid internships, he pointed out that the pay had to be commensurate with typical intern pay. So even if a rich alum were willing to pay a player $30K for a summer internship, that just can't happen.

And because of that, while I think the internship idea is nice, and could make the difference for some recruits between a program that has it and one that doesn't, it's not going to be the kind of game-changer that results in guys like Cournoyer not entering the portal.

Right - though I do think some finance summer internships can be in the range of 20-30k?

[ugarte]

my feeling about this, as always, is that i share a romantic attachment to college sports (and cornell sports in general) but that it remains improper to pretend that there is a place to regulate a maximum wage to preserve the ability to preserve the number of schools able to compete at the top level. college sports is now a multibillion dollar business. it is effectively a near-free minor league for professional sports. as such, the players should get paid a market wage. NIL is a jury-rigged solution to that conflict.

the place for romantic amateurism is in division iii, which has all of the virtues you seek but (apparently) none of the competition you want to watch.

[andyw2100]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Exactly this.

I don't think I am violating any expectation of privacy by saying that at one of the Coach's Club luncheons, when Casey was talking about the concept of paid internships, he pointed out that the pay had to be commensurate with typical intern pay. So even if a rich alum were willing to pay a player $30K for a summer internship, that just can't happen.

And because of that, while I think the internship idea is nice, and could make the difference for some recruits between a program that has it and one that doesn't, it's not going to be the kind of game-changer that results in guys like Cournoyer not entering the portal.

Right - though I do think some finance summer internships can be in the range of 20-30k?

Actually I remember being surprised at how low a number Casey tossed out. If memory serves it was something like $6 or $7K. Nowhere near $20-$30, and definitely four figures.

That being said, it could be so early in the process that Casey may have just been throwing out a number that may not be accurate. It was a very informal statement.

[BearLover]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Exactly this.

I don't think I am violating any expectation of privacy by saying that at one of the Coach's Club luncheons, when Casey was talking about the concept of paid internships, he pointed out that the pay had to be commensurate with typical intern pay. So even if a rich alum were willing to pay a player $30K for a summer internship, that just can't happen.

And because of that, while I think the internship idea is nice, and could make the difference for some recruits between a program that has it and one that doesn't, it's not going to be the kind of game-changer that results in guys like Cournoyer not entering the portal.

Right - though I do think some finance summer internships can be in the range of 20-30k?

Actually I remember being surprised at how low a number Casey tossed out. If memory serves it was something like $6 or $7K. Nowhere near $20-$30, and definitely four figures.

There are definitely kids in big cities making more than that but probably not at the places Cornell alumni can freely hire a bunch of hockey players.

Still curious how Penn basketball does all of this, unless that's all fake

[Al DeFlorio]

I've been enjoying looking at the transfer portal and seeing only Winter Wallace for Cornell while all these other schools get pillaged. Cournoyer going changes all that. Definitely didn't see him leaving, especially as a freshman. If we start to become a "farm team" for the likes of Denver, North Dakota, Michigan, etc....I won't be able to stomach it.
    Ben Robertson leaving last year hit men hard. His sophomore season wasn't as amazing as he expected (like Castagna...he couldn't buy a break last year). Not sure if Robertson had a decent "net gain" by leaving Cornell. He gets more rides in airplanes, probably more $$ in his pocket, and ??. He's a first line D man here.

Robertson probably fucked up.

If we become a farm team for the blue bloods I'll just stop watching completely

Yes!  Just like I've done with professional sports and big college football and basketball.  There will be no relationship between the players and the school other than the school name on the uniform.  What's next?  Salary caps?  No interest here in that model.  Shame, but there are other things in life, and I've now had a 65-year run with Cornell hockey.  Good things sometimes come to an end.

[stereax]

I don't think the problem will be getting the money. I think the issue will be how to distribute the money in such a way that flies by Cornell/Ivy/NCAA rules.  NIL is not a pay-for-play bucket. (and yes I know many teams get around this - but ... Ivy)

Exactly this.

I don't think I am violating any expectation of privacy by saying that at one of the Coach's Club luncheons, when Casey was talking about the concept of paid internships, he pointed out that the pay had to be commensurate with typical intern pay. So even if a rich alum were willing to pay a player $30K for a summer internship, that just can't happen.

And because of that, while I think the internship idea is nice, and could make the difference for some recruits between a program that has it and one that doesn't, it's not going to be the kind of game-changer that results in guys like Cournoyer not entering the portal.

Right - though I do think some finance summer internships can be in the range of 20-30k?

Actually I remember being surprised at how low a number Casey tossed out. If memory serves it was something like $6 or $7K. Nowhere near $20-$30, and definitely four figures.

That being said, it could be so early in the process that Casey may have just been throwing out a number that may not be accurate. It was a very informal statement.

I mean, again, I think I brought this up before - but BigLaw internships (so for graduate students in the legal profession at a soul-sucking job that I've crossed off my list on principle of survival) at market rate (Cravath scale, 10 weeks adjusted) are going for $40kish, from my understanding. Finance interning, let's say $25 an hour, 40 hours a week, 10 weeks, that's $10k. I think I brought this up before as well, but you can't pay a Cornell hockey player $100 an hour for interning and a non-hockey player $20 an hour interning at the same job.