Cornell lacrosse 2023

[mike1960]

Schedule is out: https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/schedule?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

No.... Syracuse?! Marquette instead.

What the heck is this???

[rss77]

Was told by one of the current players that Syracuse wanted to play Princeton instead of Cornell (Gary Gait's son was on the Princeton team a few years back).

[French Rage]

Don't really know where to put it, but the early reports of the player collapsing in the Bills/Bengals game tonight sounds a lot like what happened to George Boiardi in 2004.

[upprdeck]

thats the current rumor..  the hit wasnt that violent but was sure in the chest area.

[ugarte]

i was coming to post the same thing for the same reason. it looks and sounds exactly like what happened to boiardi.

[billhoward]

[edit add:] CNN's Sanjay Gupta said Damar Hamlin's injury indeed may been a result of commotio cordis, described as "a disruption of heart rhythm after a blow to the area directly over the heart at a key time during a heartbeat cycle." It's the leading cause of death in youth baseball, 2-3 per year. And it was the cause of death of George Boiardi '04 after being struck by a shot in Cornell's game against Binghamton.

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The Bill's Damar Hamlin likely had protective covering on his chest. Shoulder pads have plastic (CF?) panels that come down the front and back. That spreads out the force of the impact. I don't know how to model the impact of a 5-ounce lacrosse ball traveling, what, 80 mph, versus a 250-pound player running into or being run into at, say, 15 mph, another player. (Hamlin weighs 200 pounds.)

The autopsy showed [edit clarifying:] Chuck Hughes of the Lions, who collapsed during a game in 1971 and died that day in the hospital, had a heart attack brought on by undiagnosed, advanced arteriosclerosis, at 28. Reports Tuesday evening said Hamlin had to be resuscitated a second time, in the hospital and he's on a ventilator.

The NFL would be happier if Hamlin had an undiagnosed heart condition because then it's not the result of a violent impact in a harsh sport.

[mike1960]

Yes, commotio cordis. I thought the same thing. I hope that young man is ok.

[Swampy]

The Bill's Damar Hamlin likely had protective covering on his chest. Shoulder pads have plastic (CF?) panels that come down the front and back. That spreads out the force of the impact. I don't know how to model the impact of a 5-ounce lacrosse ball traveling, what, 80 mph, versus a 250-pound player running into or being run into at, say, 15 mph, another player. (Hamlin weighs 200 pounds.)

The autopsy showed Hughes had a heart attack brought on by undiagnosed, advanced arteriosclerosis, at 28. Reports Tuesday evening said had to be resuscitated a second time, in the hospital and he's on a ventilator.

The NFL would be happier if Hamlin had an undiagnosed heart condition because then it's not the result of a violent impact in a harsh sport.

Hughes?

Unless the shoulder pads stay rigid, with the panels not flexing and the component pieces staying in place, so as to spread the impact over a large area, they might not provide adequate protection.

IIRC, a good deal of the modeling would rely on good ol' Newton's F = ma. See The Physics of Being Hit by a Pitch. To get the speed of the collision, you'd have to add the velocities of the two players who collide and convert measures of their weights to mass.

The design of the shoulder pads would influence the time it takes to reduce the speed of the two players to zero, and how well the pads spread the pressure would determine the psi after the collision. So would players' positioning when the tackle is made (e.g., did the offensive player's chest or shoulder hit Hamlin?).

Bottom line, though, is that the two men are heavyweights and were running fast when they collided.

[billhoward]

Was told by one of the current players that Syracuse wanted to play Princeton instead of Cornell (Gary Gait's son was on the Princeton team a few years back).

Syracuse, why not do both?

[Trotsky]

The Bill's Damar Hamlin likely had protective covering on his chest. Shoulder pads have plastic (CF?) panels that come down the front and back. That spreads out the force of the impact. I don't know how to model the impact of a 5-ounce lacrosse ball traveling, what, 80 mph, versus a 250-pound player running into or being run into at, say, 15 mph, another player. (Hamlin weighs 200 pounds.)

The autopsy showed Hughes had a heart attack brought on by undiagnosed, advanced arteriosclerosis, at 28. Reports Tuesday evening said had to be resuscitated a second time, in the hospital and he's on a ventilator.

The NFL would be happier if Hamlin had an undiagnosed heart condition because then it's not the result of a violent impact in a harsh sport.

Hughes?

Unless the shoulder pads stay rigid, with the panels not flexing and the component pieces staying in place, so as to spread the impact over a large area, they might not provide adequate protection.

IIRC, a good deal of the modeling would rely on good ol' Newton's F = ma.

Isn't it the momentum that hurts, p = mv?

[George64]

The autopsy showed Hughes had a heart attack brought on by undiagnosed, advanced arteriosclerosis, at 28. Reports Tuesday evening said had to be resuscitated a second time, in the hospital and he's on a ventilator.

The NFL would be happier if Hamlin had an undiagnosed heart condition because then it's not the result of a violent impact in a harsh sport.

Hughes?

This from the Rochester D&C: "Chuck Hughes, a wide receiver for the Detroit Lions, collapsed on the field at Tiger Stadium on Oct. 24, 1971 during a game against the Chicago Bears.  Hughes had just made a 32-yard reception, and then a couple plays later, Bears' defensive end Ed O'Bradovich watched in disbelief as Hughes clutched his chest and fell face first to the ground. . . In all likelihood, Hughes was dead before the medical personnel reached him."  Hughes is the only NFL player to die on the field, although several others have had serious injuries resulting in paralysis.
.

[George64]

The autopsy showed Hughes had a heart attack brought on by undiagnosed, advanced arteriosclerosis, at 28. Reports Tuesday evening said had to be resuscitated a second time, in the hospital and he's on a ventilator.

The NFL would be happier if Hamlin had an undiagnosed heart condition because then it's not the result of a violent impact in a harsh sport.

Hughes?

This from the Rochester D&C: "Chuck Hughes, a wide receiver for the Detroit Lions, collapsed on the field at Tiger Stadium on Oct. 24, 1971 during a game against the Chicago Bears.  Hughes had just made a 32-yard reception, and then a couple plays later, Bears' defensive end Ed O'Bradovich watched in disbelief as Hughes clutched his chest and fell face first to the ground. . . In all likelihood, Hughes was dead before the medical personnel reached him."  Hughes is the only NFL player to die on the field, although several others have had serious injuries resulting in paralysis.
.

Hughes was moved off the field and, because it was late in the game, the teams finished the game, which seems unimaginable.  But then, as I recall, the NFL played their scheduled games the Sunday after JFK was assassinated. Business is business!
.

[Trotsky]

F1 kept a race running where 80 spectators were killed.  It's almost as if commerce treats human beings as means and not ends in themselves.

[billhoward]

If FIA or the NFL said We Will Not Play the Next Game Out of Respect, the drivers / players might say, "We want to play to honor him."

There was no adult in the stadium from the NFL who had the savvy or judgment or authority to say to the game's captains and coaches, "We do you and the players want to do?" The announcers saying there'd be a five-minute warmup then play resumes suggested the NFL had that as the plan for Monday night's game rather than that's what happens when an injury stops play for 20+ minutes.

In this situation, labor had the trump card, not management. Unless they wanted to bring in an entirely new work force. If so, the Congress has done pretty much nothing all week. Didn't that embattled new guy from LI have football on his resume?

[George64]

The announcers saying there'd be a five-minute warmup then play resumes suggested the NFL had that as the plan for Monday night's game rather than that's what happens when an injury stops play for 20+ minutes.

The NFL, of course, said they had no intention of resuming play.  That begs the question, why did they need to wait an hour to cancel the game?
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