Dartmouth AD apology

[KeithK]

[quote DeltaOne81][quote KeithK]I think folks who are offended by these names are over reacting.  Sticks and stones and all that...[/quote]

Jim already addressed it in much ore detail, but you realize the "sticks and stones" saying is sarcastic, right? At least that's how I always understood it < thinks of that Reading Rainbow episode > . Words can and do hurt significantly.[/quote]Not at all.  When I learned that expression as a kid it was quite clearly meant seriously.  Yes, it tended to be used as something of a defense against insults, names or whatever.  But the point is that words can only harm you if you let them.

[KeithK]

[quote DL][quote TimV]Not me.

I actually kinda like "Honky".  "Cracker" I don't really understand.  "Paleface" might be good.:-P[/quote]

I like Paleface.[/quote]"Where Paleface and Redskin both turn chicken."

(Random, I know.  But I was just watching this. Reference anyone?)

[ugarte]

[quote krose] but if you are offended and it doesn't affect me negatively in any substantial way, then it's entirely your problem and you should figure out how to deal with it.  In other words: tough. ::nut::[/quote]This is, unfortunately, not the logic of a ::nut::. It is the logic of an ::asshole::. You aren't saying that the other side is wrong to be offended you are saying that you don't care that they are.

Hope you aren't offended but I don't see how it could negatively affect me if you are.

[KeithK]

[quote Beeeej][quote Robb]I have to agree with Keith on this one - words only hurt you as much as you allow them to.  If someone's using racial slurs, they're obviously speaking from (at best) a myopic perspective.  Ignore them, remind yourself that you're lucky to have been brought up to think for yourself, and move on.[/quote]

That is a perfectly valid suggestion when someone on a street corner calls after you using what you perceive as a racial slur.

What if the racial slur is permanently institutionalized?  Harder to ignore, no?[/quote]OK, maybe.  But I still fail to see how "Fighting Sioux" or "Indians" are in any way racial slurs.

[Beeeej]

[quote KeithK][quote Beeeej]That is a perfectly valid suggestion when someone on a street corner calls after you using what you perceive as a racial slur.

What if the racial slur is permanently institutionalized?  Harder to ignore, no?[/quote]OK, maybe.  But I still fail to see how "Fighting Sioux" or "Indians" are in any way racial slurs.[/quote]

And some people disagree with you on both the names and the symbology, including (I gather) some Sioux and some Indians.  Your failure to see how they are slurs does not mean their failure to be slurs.

If a school in Germany were idiotic enough to name their sports team "die Juden," I might think it's stupid, but I might not consider it a slur.  If on the other hand the insignia of die Juden were a caricature - a guy with an enormous, hook-like nose counting money and trying to cover up the horns on his head - I'd have a serious problem with it.

[ugarte]

[quote KeithK][quote Beeeej][quote Robb]I have to agree with Keith on this one - words only hurt you as much as you allow them to.  If someone's using racial slurs, they're obviously speaking from (at best) a myopic perspective.  Ignore them, remind yourself that you're lucky to have been brought up to think for yourself, and move on.[/quote]

That is a perfectly valid suggestion when someone on a street corner calls after you using what you perceive as a racial slur.

What if the racial slur is permanently institutionalized?  Harder to ignore, no?[/quote]OK, maybe.  But I still fail to see how "Fighting Sioux" or "Indians" are in any way racial slurs.[/quote]Fans of using Native American iconography say the names are used as homage - meant to convey traits like bravery or indomitability. This, alas, is 80% bullshit (or is at least tainted by a past of being 80% bullshit.)

Are Tigers brave? Lions? Bears? No, they are chosen because they are savage and dangerous and that is the context in which teams selected names like "Indians" or "Redskins".

Even if you want to take the assertion that positive characteristics are the rationale behind the name at face value, attributing positive characteristics to a race is also racist. Does North Dakota call its math team the "Asians"?

[RichH]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/ap_on_re_us/dartmouth_native_americans

Germane to the topic.

[billhoward]

Lots of cases where people take offense too easily. This may or may not be the case with Native Americans unhappy with Indian mascots / logos / nicknames.

There are arguments that much of the Middle East (the part that dislikes us, which should qualify as "much") would rather blame others for their state rather than look within to their own lack of progress.

[ugarte]

[quote billhoward]There are arguments that much of the Middle East (the part that dislikes us, which should qualify as "much") would rather blame others for their state rather than look within to their own lack of progress.[/quote]Maybe so. I still don't think calling a team the Jihadists would be appropriate.

[Rosey]

[quote ugarte]This is, unfortunately, not the logic of a ::nut::. It is the logic of an ::asshole::. You aren't saying that the other side is wrong to be offended you are saying that you don't care that they are.[/quote]
That's right.  Out of common decency, I don't go out of my way to offend people; but if I happen to offend someone in the course of doing something I and most of my neighbors think is completely innocuous... oh, well.

Hope you aren't offended but I don't see how it could negatively affect me if you are.

But I can still call you an asshat, even if it doesn't hurt.

Kyle

[Beeeej]

[quote krose]Out of common decency, I don't go out of my way to offend people; but if I happen to offend someone in the course of doing something I and most of my neighbors think is completely innocuous... oh, well.[/quote]

Many people consider it part of the aforementioned "common decency" to reconsider what we previously thought to be completely innocuous once we are informed that it offended someone.  Not necessarily change our behavior every time someone gets bent out of shape, but at least reconsider our own views on the subject.  Which I think goes a little bit beyond "oh, well."

[ugarte]

[quote krose]
But I can still call you an asshat, even if it doesn't hurt.[/quote]But... it... does! ::cry:::`-(

[Trotsky]

[quote ugarte]I still don't think calling a team the Jihadists would be appropriate.[/quote]

Cool mascot, though.

[ugarte]

[quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]I still don't think calling a team the Jihadists would be appropriate.[/quote]

Cool mascot, though.[/quote]And fight song.

[Beeeej]

[quote ugarte][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]I still don't think calling a team the Jihadists would be appropriate.[/quote]

Cool mascot, though.[/quote]And fight song.[/quote]

Does each fan get 72 virgins for participating in the annual overnight season ticket line-up?