OT: Baseball scoring

Greg Berge · September 11, 2002, 02:56:14 PM

A perfect game is nobody reaches base, for any reason, zip.

There were a couple of "bogus" perfect games on the books for years: Haddix' perfecto into the 12th when he finally lost the game (sorry Harvey, you got boned, but that's not perfect), the the reliever (for Ruth no less) who got a pickoff for out 1 and then retired the next 26 in a row (again, amazing,, but not perfect). Both have been removed now. The only way you can "back" into a perfect game is a rain-shortened game.

jtwcornell91 · September 11, 2002, 03:12:13 PM

Y'know, I tried to look up the definition of a perfect game in the rulebook, and it doesn't seem to be there!

Trivia question: how can you have a perfect game in which the winning team commits an error?

Josh '99 · September 11, 2002, 03:22:34 PM

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

QuoteTrivia question: how can you have a perfect game in which the winning team commits an error?

I may be wrong, but, if an easy popup is dropped in foul territory, isn't that scored an error?

Keith K · September 11, 2002, 03:59:43 PM

Can a rain-shortened game be an (official) perfect game? If so then we could end up with a pretty cool trivia question: When is a perfect game NOT a no-hitter? If you recall, they revised the no-hitter rules some years ago and decided that it only counts if the pitcher goes the entire game and it's at least nine innings. Thus, if a pitcher goes six perfect innings and the game gets called for rain, it does not go into MLBs official records as a no-hitter. Even more ridiculous is when a visiting pitcher goes the distance but loses despite giving up no hits. The game doesn't count as a no-no because he will have only gone 8 innings (see Andy Hawkins, 7/90, losing to the White Sox 4-0 despite allowing 0 hits.)

ugarte · September 11, 2002, 04:07:49 PM

Greg wrote: [Q] The only way you can "back" into a perfect game is a rain-shortened game.[/Q]

This isn't true any more. They changed the definition of no-hitter/perfect game to be a traditional complete game - at least 9 innings. They don't even give a no-hitter if a pitcher on the road throws 8 innings of no-hit ball, but loses due to an unearned run. (This could happen if, for example, the leadoff hitter for the home team starts the game with a walk, advances to second on a groundout, moves to third on a wild pitch and scores on a sac fly. Home team goes on to win 1-0 without getting a hit.) This happened to Andy Hawkins with the Yankees. He lost 4-0!

For a good short discussion of the no-hitter rules, (and the Hawkins loss) see: http://www.pubdim.net/baseballlibrary/excerpts/records_registry20.stm

And if someone drops a foul ball, and the batter does not reach base, it is still a perfect game.

And finally, even though Ernie Shore, the guy who relieved Babe Ruth, no longer gets credit for a perfect game, Shore and Ruth do get credit for a combined no-hitter. Ruth was thrown out after arguing over ball 4 to the leadoff hitter, so nobody got a hit for the Senators.

Erica · September 12, 2002, 05:18:42 PM

What about a wild pitch? Is it not wild if no one is on base? Is it not wild if no one advances? Does a tree make a sound when it falls if no one is there to hear it?Josh Herman '99 wrote:

And I was trying to stay out of the baseball discussion...

DeltaOne81 · September 12, 2002, 10:23:18 PM

Ah, more baseball technicalities. One again, the beauty of the scorecard is that everything happens for a reason. Though not necessarily so, in this case the reverse is also true - a reason is only necessary if something happens. If the ball gets away from the catcher, but the runner doesn't advance, it's not a wild pitch/pass ball. Same thing if there was no one was on base to begin with.

-Fred

(Hoping he's actually right this time, though I'm personally 100% positive)

Greg Berge · September 12, 2002, 10:33:44 PM

The E on a dropped foul ball is a case defying "a reason is only necessary if something happens."

Another: cases in which assists are given but no out is recorded (I hate these, I think they're so dumb). I can't quote an exact example, but I'm sure somebody here can give one.

ugarte · September 12, 2002, 10:51:13 PM

Greg wrote [Q]Another: cases in which assists are given but no out is recorded (I hate these, I think they're so dumb). I can't quote an exact example, but I'm sure somebody here can give one. [/Q]

I've never actually heard of this, but I can think of one example where it might be true. Although strikeouts aren't usually thought of this way, the pitcher gets an assist and the catcher gets a putout. If the catcher drops strike three (with first base open), the batter has to be put out "again" either by tag or a throw to first. If the batter reaches first safely it is scored as K, E2. Perhaps the pitcher gets an assist even though there is no putout.

tml5 · September 12, 2002, 11:50:45 PM

I'm such a sucker -

The error on the foul ball is scored because the batter gets to continue hitting. If the batter then reaches base, it's an indirect result of the error on the foul ball.

As for the assist with no out - I imagine that an error on the first baseman might be scored as such. Say the shortstop makes a brilliant play and the first baseman just misses the ball. Is that an assist with an E-3? I'm not so sure, since I never keep track of assists/putouts when I keep score.

jtwcornell91 · September 13, 2002, 01:15:44 AM

The pitcher never gets an assist on a strikeout. (I'd quote the rule, but I can't be arsed to go look it up. Follow one of my gazillion links to the online major league rulebook from earlier in this thread and look in the chapter entitled "The Official Scorer".)

Examples of assists with no putout are when a catcher would have thrown out a runner trying to steal second, except that the shortstop muffed the catch. The runner gets a "caught stealing", the catcher gets an assist, and the shortstop gets an error. Similarly, if the first baseman drops a throw from an infielder which would have thrown out the batter, the infielder still gets the assist.

Greg Berge · September 13, 2002, 06:23:45 AM

Exactly. Let's give assists whenever a player puts a perfect pass on a stick in front, even though the forward muffs the shot.

Erica · September 13, 2002, 10:06:23 AM

Say the shortstop makes a brilliant play and the first baseman just misses the ball. Is that an assist with an E-3? I'm not so sure, since I never keep track of assists/putouts when I keep score.

Well, it depends. In my experience, it seems that that would most likely be scored a hit based on degree of difficulty. If the shortstop made a great play but couldn't get the out and the play would have been close at first. Almost always, the error is charged to the thrower, because he is more likely to err than the person catching the ball. Some scorers are more likely to give the batter a hit, some are more likely to give the fielder an error, depending on if the out could have been made had the throw been flawless.