HARVARD SUCKS

ugarte
The more I read about the nature of the cheating the less I stand by my feeling that the students (as a group) are being railroaded. If people were cut-and-pasting material that was being shared, that's obviously bullshit. That isn't collaboration and consultation; it's closer to plagiarism.

Remember that 125 out of the 250 students have been accused. So while it is becoming clear that a subset of the accused committed serious, copy-paste-style infractions, it is very likely that others are being railroaded. If you have about 9 hours to spare, read the last 4-5 posts on Prof. Harry Lewis's blog [harry-lewis.blogspot.com]. The relevant excerpt:

The course seems to have sent some mixed signals about the exam, with a TF holding office hours during the exam, in which students could hear each other's questions about their proposed answers, and the TF's responses.

Of course, the exam instructions were clear: No collaboration. But 60mph speed limit signs also could not be clearer. If you go 63 for an hour and people are passing you, and then you pass a speed trap and see that somebody who raced passed you at 75 has been pulled over, you get used to the idea that maybe you, everyone else, and the police all agree that 60mph signs don't literally mean what they say. It sounds to me like some students were going 75--they were cutting and pasting--and some of the other students who have been pulled in were going 63. Hopefully the Ad Board will respond in proportion, though I think those 63mph students have some justification for rolling their eyes about their culpability. Those who keep insisting that the students should be punished because the exam instructions were clear will, I trust, not complain if they are ticketed for driving 63, like everyone else, in a 60mph zone.

"We're in trouble. I just checked with the guys at the Jewish house and they said that every one of our answers on the Psych test was wrong."

madAgaskar07

ugarte
The more I read about the nature of the cheating the less I stand by my feeling that the students (as a group) are being railroaded. If people were cut-and-pasting material that was being shared, that's obviously bullshit. That isn't collaboration and consultation; it's closer to plagiarism.

Remember that 125 out of the 250 students have been accused. So while it is becoming clear that a subset of the accused committed serious, copy-paste-style infractions, it is very likely that others are being railroaded. If you have about 9 hours to spare, read the last 4-5 posts on Prof. Harry Lewis's blog [harry-lewis.blogspot.com]. The relevant excerpt:

The course seems to have sent some mixed signals about the exam, with a TF holding office hours during the exam, in which students could hear each other's questions about their proposed answers, and the TF's responses.

Of course, the exam instructions were clear: No collaboration. But 60mph speed limit signs also could not be clearer. If you go 63 for an hour and people are passing you, and then you pass a speed trap and see that somebody who raced passed you at 75 has been pulled over, you get used to the idea that maybe you, everyone else, and the police all agree that 60mph signs don't literally mean what they say. It sounds to me like some students were going 75--they were cutting and pasting--and some of the other students who have been pulled in were going 63. Hopefully the Ad Board will respond in proportion, though I think those 63mph students have some justification for rolling their eyes about their culpability. Those who keep insisting that the students should be punished because the exam instructions were clear will, I trust, not complain if they are ticketed for driving 63, like everyone else, in a 60mph zone.

Clearly Prof. Lewis has never driven in Cayuga Heights.

I believe that his argument boils down to "Oh I guess it is ok to cheat a little but not a lot and it is really bad form to get caught"

I think this is a compelling case for doing away with exams at Harvard. They clearly have no impact on grades. For that matter why go through the whole expensive and cumbersom process of holding classes that is so 20th century.

Towerroad
I believe that his argument boils down to "Oh I guess it is ok to cheat a little but not a lot and it is really bad form to get caught"

No, I believe his argument is closer to "Those who only slightly broke the rules and/or didn't realize they were breaking them shouldn't be expelled alongside the worst offenders, they should be given something more like a slap on the wrist."

Towerroad

madAgaskar07

ugarte
The more I read about the nature of the cheating the less I stand by my feeling that the students (as a group) are being railroaded. If people were cut-and-pasting material that was being shared, that's obviously bullshit. That isn't collaboration and consultation; it's closer to plagiarism.

Remember that 125 out of the 250 students have been accused. So while it is becoming clear that a subset of the accused committed serious, copy-paste-style infractions, it is very likely that others are being railroaded. If you have about 9 hours to spare, read the last 4-5 posts on Prof. Harry Lewis's blog [harry-lewis.blogspot.com]. The relevant excerpt:

The course seems to have sent some mixed signals about the exam, with a TF holding office hours during the exam, in which students could hear each other's questions about their proposed answers, and the TF's responses.

Of course, the exam instructions were clear: No collaboration. But 60mph speed limit signs also could not be clearer. If you go 63 for an hour and people are passing you, and then you pass a speed trap and see that somebody who raced passed you at 75 has been pulled over, you get used to the idea that maybe you, everyone else, and the police all agree that 60mph signs don't literally mean what they say. It sounds to me like some students were going 75--they were cutting and pasting--and some of the other students who have been pulled in were going 63. Hopefully the Ad Board will respond in proportion, though I think those 63mph students have some justification for rolling their eyes about their culpability. Those who keep insisting that the students should be punished because the exam instructions were clear will, I trust, not complain if they are ticketed for driving 63, like everyone else, in a 60mph zone.

Clearly Prof. Lewis has never driven in Cayuga Heights.

I believe that his argument boils down to "Oh I guess it is ok to cheat a little but not a lot and it is really bad form to get caught"

That's unfair. His argument boils down to "if the TA answers a question you asked, maybe you shouldn't be punished for listening".

Beeeej

Towerroad
I believe that his argument boils down to "Oh I guess it is ok to cheat a little but not a lot and it is really bad form to get caught"

No, I believe his argument is closer to "Those who only slightly broke the rules and/or didn't realize they were breaking them shouldn't be expelled alongside the worst offenders, they should be given something more like a slap on the wrist."

Rather than a slap on the wrist I think it would be appropriate for those found to be less deceitful to have to wear "The Scarlet Letter".

marty

Beeeej

Towerroad
I believe that his argument boils down to "Oh I guess it is ok to cheat a little but not a lot and it is really bad form to get caught"

No, I believe his argument is closer to "Those who only slightly broke the rules and/or didn't realize they were breaking them shouldn't be expelled alongside the worst offenders, they should be given something more like a slap on the wrist."

Rather than a slap on the wrist I think it would be appropriate for those found to be less deceitful to have to wear "The Scarlet Letter".

But at Harvard everyone gets an "A"

Trotsky
"We're in trouble. I just checked with the guys at the Jewish house and they said that every one of our answers on the Psych test was wrong."

That can't be. How can there be a Jewish house if Harvard doesn't admit Jews?

A. sucks sucks

B. I swear there's a veritas joke in here somewhere. Someone clever should figure it out.

C. You even suck at cheating! You even suck at cheating!

D. You're so bad you can't win despite knowing the answer!

E.
INSTIGATOR: "Hey (captain whose name I'm too lazy to go back and look up)! Professor such-and-such called and he said:"

CROWD: "you suck!"

INSTIGATOR: Actually, he said you've been caught cheating and will be asked to take a leave of absence.

CROWD: "you suck! (pause) AT CHEATING!
You suck at cheating!
You suck at cheating!"

F. Hey [captain], when they brought you in as a prefrosh and introduced you to some current players as role models, they didn't mean Kyle Richter!

[clear]
Photographed near Palo Alto by a friend, Nathan Papadopulos. Next stop, Cambridge.

billhoward

[clear]
Photographed near Palo Alto by a friend, Nathan Papadopulos. Next stop, Cambridge.

Clearly a delivery of suckiness. I believe that it is delivered by barge in Cambridge. They are planning a pipeline to increase the volume.

Bentley is sending 16 buses to Harvard's opener tonight tomorrow.

It's been confirmed that Bentley is sending 16 fan buses to our home-opener on Saturday night, and tickets are nearly sold-out

— Harvard Men's Hockey (@Harvard_Hockey) October 25, 2012

Man, I'm really having a hard time deciding whether to watch the CC game on redcast or to get my jersey on and go cheer for Bentley in person.

BMac
Man, I'm really having a hard time deciding whether to watch the CC game on redcast or to get my jersey on and go cheer for Bentley in person.

With today's technology, toys and gizmos, can't you do both?

(asks one of the few people who still uses a "not-so-smart" phone).

I love how they're bragging about a sell-out caused by the vising fans.

jtn27
I love how they're bragging about a sell-out caused by the vising fans.

Are they bragging? I read it as "oh shit, there are going to be a lot of Bentley fans here, if any of the Harvard hockey Twitter account's six followers sees this in time, please come to the game so we don't look bad!"

It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

I just checked the sucks ticketing page and there are limited seats available... very limited... mostly pairs but I was able to grab 4 together

THANK YOU!

2 more tickets to my pile. Still a lot of friends to get tickets for... but every one counts!

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

marty

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

I was assuming that there were 4 servants fanning 4 Harvard supporters who where also attended by 4 other servants peeling the grapes and taking the tests. However, the entire exercise fails based on the assumption that Harvard actually has 4 supporters. Clearly that is absurd.

Towerroad

marty

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

I was assuming that there were 4 servants fanning 4 Harvard supporters who where also attended by 4 other servants peeling the grapes and taking the tests. However, the entire exercise fails based on the assumption that Harvard actually has 4 supporters. Clearly that is absurd.

I was assuming that there were 12 servants who waved 4 fans for 4 four students. However, nowhere was it specified that the students were attending hockey games.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Towerroad

marty

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

I was assuming that there were 4 servants fanning 4 Harvard supporters who where also attended by 4 other servants peeling the grapes and taking the tests. However, the entire exercise fails based on the assumption that Harvard actually has 4 supporters. Clearly that is absurd.

I was assuming that there were 12 servants who waved 4 fans for 4 four students. However, nowhere was it specified that the students were attending hockey games.

Josh '99

Jeff Hopkins '82

Towerroad

marty

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

I was assuming that there were 4 servants fanning 4 Harvard supporters who where also attended by 4 other servants peeling the grapes and taking the tests. However, the entire exercise fails based on the assumption that Harvard actually has 4 supporters. Clearly that is absurd.

I was assuming that there were 12 servants who waved 4 fans for 4 four students. However, nowhere was it specified that the students were attending hockey games.

Ah, this is the eLynah I missed so much.

Josh '99

Jeff Hopkins '82

Towerroad

marty

Towerroad

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky

Towerroad

ugarte
It has not been confirmed that Harvard could fill 16 fan buses for the trip to Harvard.

It has not been confirmed that Sucks has 16 fans.

4 fans and 12 servants.

Who wave the fans and peel grapes for the students.

Clearly then we may conclude that 4 actual Sucks students attend the game each with 4 servants. Some of those servants may in fact be TA's filling out their tests for them.

Ok so which is it? 16 fans or 20?

I was assuming that there were 4 servants fanning 4 Harvard supporters who where also attended by 4 other servants peeling the grapes and taking the tests. However, the entire exercise fails based on the assumption that Harvard actually has 4 supporters. Clearly that is absurd.

I was assuming that there were 12 servants who waved 4 fans for 4 four students. However, nowhere was it specified that the students were attending hockey games.

Shouldn't that be an elephant?

This belongs here...



...and Harvard Sucks!

Jeff Hopkins '82
Shouldn't that be an elephant?

UVM called...

I love biannual "go to work with a big red hockey shirt on" day.

It makes it better that I work in Cambridge.

BMac
I love biannual "go to work with a big red hockey shirt on" day.

It makes it better that I work in Cambridge.

I'm wearing my big red sweatshirt . (My Cam Abbot Jersey would have been pushing it, unfortunately). Though on the train this morning I did see a man wearing tailored red pants, a matching red shirt and white vest that caught my eye. However, I don't think he was dressed that way in honor of the Cornell-Harvard game.

Let's Go Red!

Hahvahd Sucks!

Haaahhh - vaaahhhd ...

SUCKS!

Dean, I like how your handle makes you forever a freshman.

BMac
SUCKS!

Dean, I like how your handle makes you forever a freshman.

Bernardo, I wish that were true. Missin' life on the hill pretty badly these days

imafrshmn

BMac
SUCKS!

Dean, I like how your handle makes you forever a freshman.

Bernardo, I wish that were true. Missin' life on the hill pretty badly these days

Oh, I want to go back to the old days...

KeithK

imafrshmn

BMac
SUCKS!

Dean, I like how your handle makes you forever a freshman.

Bernardo, I wish that were true. Missin' life on the hill pretty badly these days

Oh, I want to go back to the old days...

Those good old days on the Hill!

munchkin

KeithK

imafrshmn

BMac
SUCKS!

Dean, I like how your handle makes you forever a freshman.

Bernardo, I wish that were true. Missin' life on the hill pretty badly these days

Oh, I want to go back to the old days...

Those good old days on the Hill!

That bitch.

Months after Cornell becomes an Ivy pioneer by filming porn in Carpenter Library, Harvard does a lame imitation by establishing a club where the Johnnies can talk about how much they actually (would like to) suck.

Swampy
Months after Cornell becomes an Ivy pioneer by filming porn in Carpenter Library, Harvard does a lame imitation by establishing a club where the Johnnies can talk about how much they actually (would like to) suck.

All talk, no action. Well, at least it'll help them come up with ideas for all those letters to the Penthouse Forum, if that's still around.

Begging authority to sanction your subversion of its norms. UR doin it wrong.

Give My Regards

Swampy
Months after Cornell becomes an Ivy pioneer by filming porn in Carpenter Library, Harvard does a lame imitation by establishing a club where the Johnnies can talk about how much they actually (would like to) suck.

All talk, no action. Well, at least it'll help them come up with ideas for all those letters to the Penthouse Forum, if that's still around.

I am afraid that this is just too easy. Is there really any sport in mocking this?

Give My Regards

Swampy
Months after Cornell becomes an Ivy pioneer by filming porn in Carpenter Library, Harvard does a lame imitation by establishing a club where the Johnnies can talk about how much they actually (would like to) suck.

All talk, no action. Well, at least it'll help them come up with ideas for all those letters to the Penthouse Forum, if that's still around.

I wonder how many of them skipped class today to get free toys from Trojan.

Rita

Give My Regards

Swampy
Months after Cornell becomes an Ivy pioneer by filming porn in Carpenter Library, Harvard does a lame imitation by establishing a club where the Johnnies can talk about how much they actually (would like to) suck.

All talk, no action. Well, at least it'll help them come up with ideas for all those letters to the Penthouse Forum, if that's still around.

I wonder how many of them skipped class today to get free toys from Trojan.

Wow! I remember when Bill Baird was arrested in Boston for distributing condoms.

Some are taking a break from sucking.

[www.thecrimson.com]

During its 19-day stretch between games, a handful of players were removed from Harvard’s official roster, which was smaller Friday night than it had been at the season’s start.

“Some guys had to take a year absent,” Girard said. “I won’t say any names, but like any other team, we might have some problems with the academic scandal. Some of them just want to take leaves to get more playing time and come back later because they were younger guys. Some other guys were just injured. But overall, they’re going to come back; they’re still part of our family and still part of our team.”

Edit to add CHN's story, which fills in the blanks, since The Crimson's journalism was so thorough: [www.collegehockeynews.com]

To be clear, by "any other team", Girard really means "any other team at Harvard." Like their basketball team, football team, etc.

RichH
Some are taking a break from sucking.

[www.thecrimson.com]

During its 19-day stretch between games, a handful of players were removed from Harvard’s official roster, which was smaller Friday night than it had been at the season’s start.

“Some guys had to take a year absent,” Girard said. “I won’t say any names, but like any other team, we might have some problems with the academic scandal. Some of them just want to take leaves to get more playing time and come back later because they were younger guys. Some other guys were just injured. But overall, they’re going to come back; they’re still part of our family and still part of our team.”

Edit to add CHN's story, which fills in the blanks, since The Crimson's journalism was so thorough: [www.collegehockeynews.com]

USCHO says they only have six defensemen on the roster.

RichH
Some are taking a break from sucking.

I am not sure that is possible once you matriculate.

Towerroad

RichH
Some are taking a break from sucking.

I am not sure that is possible once you matriculate.

It is, but only when you're 20.

It's that time again. Harvard will be losing to BC tonight at 8 in their annual Ballet of Futility, shortly after Northeastern has lost to BU.

From the USCHO Beanpot blog:

Jim Connelly:
Now, if Harvard can do exactly the same, it would be the first time in tournament history that NU and Harvard play in the championship game.

BC up 1-0 end of 1

Jim Hyla
BC up 1-0 end of 1

Harvard lost, to the surprise of nobody, because they suck.

Josh '99
Harvard lost, to the surprise of nobody, because they suck.

This is a philosophical question. Do they lose because they suck or do they suck because they lose?

AHEM, SIR!

[www.youtube.com]

Northeastern beats BU 3-1 with a hat trick from nation-leading rookie scorer Kevin Roy.

I'm attending my first beanpot game next Monday for the finals; very glad to have someone to cheer for. Everyone likes an underdog. Underhusky. Whatever. I'll squint and pretend their ugly brown is more red.

BMac
AHEM, SIR!

[www.youtube.com]

Northeastern beats BU 3-1 with a hat trick from nation-leading rookie scorer Kevin Roy.

I'm attending my first beanpot game next Monday for the finals; very glad to have someone to cheer for. Everyone likes an underdog. Underhusky. Whatever. I'll squint and pretend their ugly brown is more red.

Good luck to NU, but I'm not putting any money on them. But then again, I don't bet on anything. Listening to parts, seeing the highlights, and looking at the stats, it certainly looks like BU played bad defense and NU was fortunate to win. Did anyone watch it?

BMac
AHEM, SIR!

[www.youtube.com]

Northeastern beats BU 3-1 with a hat trick from nation-leading rookie scorer Kevin Roy.

I'm attending my first beanpot game next Monday for the finals; very glad to have someone to cheer for. Everyone likes an underdog. Underhusky. Whatever. I'll squint and pretend their ugly brown is more red.

For the sake of accuracy: final score was 3-2 after a late BU goal; and Northeastern's colors are red and black...no brown...and home sweaters are white.

Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

BMac
Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

My takeaway is John Stewart actually still thinks Harvard is the most prestigious university in the United States.

It aint 1975 anymore, my friend.

Trotsky

BMac
Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

My takeaway is John Stewart actually still thinks Harvard is the most prestigious university in the United States.

It aint 1975 anymore, my friend.

PalmDrive.png

Please. That's only a junior university.

Kyle Rose
Please. That's only a junior university.

Looks like Harvard material, at that.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

BMac
Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

My takeaway is John Stewart actually still thinks Harvard is the most prestigious university in the United States.

It aint 1975 anymore, my friend.

PalmDrive.png

Please. That's only a junior university.

And they had to steal faculty from Cornell on several occassions to even get on the map.

Go Cal.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

BMac
Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

My takeaway is John Stewart actually still thinks Harvard is the most prestigious university in the United States.

It aint 1975 anymore, my friend.

PalmDrive.png

Please. That's only a junior university.

You know what they call Sucks - "The Stanford of the East"

BMac
Let's forget the last couple months, forget that Sucks won a game this week, focus on the positive: Sucks sucks.

Let us all watch John Stewart tell us so:
[bostinno.com]

Stewart's priceless pause after asking "What class was it that led to cheating ..[some hard class?]?" .... "Introduction to Congress." .... [pause] "I rescind my question. They'll do well."

As good a place as any to put this USCHO article on our fall from grace.

Jim Hyla
As good a place as any to put this USCHO article on our fall from grace.

He can’t help but look at first-place Quinnipiac, a team in the top spot by virtue of what Cornell has done well for so many years.

“Everyone has bought into their systems,” Schafer said of the Bobcats. “They get good goaltending night in and night out, they’re blocking shots and they’re disciplined night in and night out. That’s what winning teams do.”

Is the implication that everyone has not bought into Schafer's system this year?

Vanessa has acquired Beer Darts from Josh '99, since he's being lame and not coming. We will be tailgating either behind the stadium or in the B School parking lot before the game. We will also be hitting up Harpoon Brewery if anyone would like to join somewhere around 12:30-1.

Just to keep things in perspective.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit that after over 30 years of attending Cornell vs. Harvard hockey games, this past Saturday was the first time I attended one at Harvard. But being my first time at Bright, I couldn't help but notice and immediately be pissed off by their banner titled "ECAC Championships" (or perhaps it reads "ECAC Champions" ) which includes all the years they came in first in the regular season. They have another banner titled "ECAC Tournament Championships" or something like that that correctly shows the years they really won championships.

Has this been discussed here before? Have others been as annoyed by this as I was? Does the ECAC really allow a team that comes in first in the regular season to call themselves "ECAC Champions" if they don't also win the tournament? I'm sure I'm tilting at windmills, but I'd like to see Harvard forced to take that banner down, or at least correct the title to add "Regular Season."

andyw2100
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that after over 30 years of attending Cornell vs. Harvard hockey games, this past Saturday was the first time I attended one at Harvard. But being my first time at Bright Lynah East, I couldn't help but notice and immediately be pissed off by their banner titled "ECAC Championships" (or perhaps it reads "ECAC Champions" ) which includes all the years they came in first in the regular season. They have another banner titled "ECAC Tournament Championships" or something like that that correctly shows the years they really won championships.

Has this been discussed here before? Have others been as annoyed by this as I was? Does the ECAC really allow a team that comes in first in the regular season to call themselves "ECAC Champions" if they don't also win the tournament? I'm sure I'm tilting at windmills, but I'd like to see Harvard forced to take that banner down, or at least correct the title to add "Regular Season."

Fixed. And Regular Season Championships should be ECAC Championships. Sample size and all that.

andyw2100
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that after over 30 years of attending Cornell vs. Harvard hockey games, this past Saturday was the first time I attended one at Harvard. But being my first time at Bright, I couldn't help but notice and immediately be pissed off by their banner titled "ECAC Championships" (or perhaps it reads "ECAC Champions" ) which includes all the years they came in first in the regular season. They have another banner titled "ECAC Tournament Championships" or something like that that correctly shows the years they really won championships.

Has this been discussed here before? Have others been as annoyed by this as I was? Does the ECAC really allow a team that comes in first in the regular season to call themselves "ECAC Champions" if they don't also win the tournament? I'm sure I'm tilting at windmills, but I'd like to see Harvard forced to take that banner down, or at least correct the title to add "Regular Season."

I think there is a general consensus that grade inflation and 80% of the class graduating with honors and all is a bit overdone. The fact that the athletes were caught cheating this year may be a harbinger of fair grading on the horizon. I'm sure the banners will also be corrected as the university makes its penance.

Well on second thought...

Ben

andyw2100
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that after over 30 years of attending Cornell vs. Harvard hockey games, this past Saturday was the first time I attended one at Harvard. But being my first time at Bright Lynah East, I couldn't help but notice and immediately be pissed off by their banner titled "ECAC Championships" (or perhaps it reads "ECAC Champions" ) which includes all the years they came in first in the regular season. They have another banner titled "ECAC Tournament Championships" or something like that that correctly shows the years they really won championships.

Has this been discussed here before? Have others been as annoyed by this as I was? Does the ECAC really allow a team that comes in first in the regular season to call themselves "ECAC Champions" if they don't also win the tournament? I'm sure I'm tilting at windmills, but I'd like to see Harvard forced to take that banner down, or at least correct the title to add "Regular Season."

Fixed. And Regular Season Championships should be ECAC Championships. Sample size and all that.

I can't wait until the NHL's Presidents' trophy comes to my town!

Ben

andyw2100
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that after over 30 years of attending Cornell vs. Harvard hockey games, this past Saturday was the first time I attended one at Harvard. But being my first time at Bright Lynah East, I couldn't help but notice and immediately be pissed off by their banner titled "ECAC Championships" (or perhaps it reads "ECAC Champions" ) which includes all the years they came in first in the regular season. They have another banner titled "ECAC Tournament Championships" or something like that that correctly shows the years they really won championships.

Has this been discussed here before? Have others been as annoyed by this as I was? Does the ECAC really allow a team that comes in first in the regular season to call themselves "ECAC Champions" if they don't also win the tournament? I'm sure I'm tilting at windmills, but I'd like to see Harvard forced to take that banner down, or at least correct the title to add "Regular Season."

Fixed. And Regular Season Championships should be ECAC Championships. Sample size and all that.

Says the soccer fan.

If regular season finish equals champion then the Presidents' Trophy should be more valuable than the Stanley Cup.

In my eyes, tournament winner is ECAC Champion. Winner of the 22 game round robin is top seed in the ECAC tournament. The '02 Cornell team was not ECAC champion for example.

Chris '03
If regular season finish equals champion then the Presidents' Trophy should be more valuable than the Stanley Cup.

We've been socialized to think the reverse, but a larger sample size (particularly with a balanced schedule) is more likely to leave the best team at the top of the table. Playoffs may be more exciting, but they increase the importance of random variations -- bounces of the puck.

Ben

Chris '03
If regular season finish equals champion then the Presidents' Trophy should be more valuable than the Stanley Cup.

We've been socialized to think the reverse, but a larger sample size (particularly with a balanced schedule) is more likely to leave the best team at the top of the table. Playoffs may be more exciting, but they increase the importance of random variations -- bounces of the puck.

I refuse to

The only reason the RS winner in US sports isn't called a "champion" is to hype the post-season.

Finishing first is definitely some sort of "championship," and I don't mind Harvard having its banners. What I mind is those banners are in pastel shades reminiscent of 1970's toothpaste which have no relationship to the team colors. Their NCAA Title banner used to look like a tampon ad. Somebody in the AD's marketing office must have a deep-seeded (get it?) hate for bright (get that one too?) colors.

Trotsky
The only reason the RS winner in US sports isn't called a "champion" is to hype the post-season.

Finishing first is definitely some sort of "championship," and I don't mind Harvard having its banners. What I mind is those banners are in pastel shades reminiscent of 1970's toothpaste which have no relationship to the team colors. Their NCAA Title banner used to look like a tampon ad. Somebody in the AD's marketing office must have a deep-seeded (get it?) hate for bright (get that one too?) colors.

Speaking of colors, have you looked at the UMD message board recently?

Here's how the ECAC describes the "Cups":

On March 16, 2001, at the 40th league championship in Lake Placid, N.Y., ECAC Hockey paid tribute to retiring Harvard Director of Athletics William J. “Bill” Cleary Jr. by re-naming its regular-season trophy the William J. Cleary Cup.

On March 9, 1989, the league paid tribute to retiring Commissioner Robert M. “Scotty” Whitelaw by announcing that the Division I Men’s Ice Hockey Championship trophy would be named the Whitelaw Cup.

In doing a quick search of the ECAC site, I couldn't find reference to regular season champion, it's probably there somewhere, but when you search "champion" the first batch of results all refer to tournament champions. There probably is some justification for it somewhere, but any time someone asks "Who was the (year) champion?", I'm sure the response would be the tourney winner.

But, I say let them have their little celebrations, I'm much happier to see responses such as was posted on the Harvrd game thread by Ben:

Text from a Sucks student friend (her first hockey game): "Your school took over our arena."

That's enough to forget about banners.

Having observed every ECAC season since its founding, I would say there was no "regular season champion" until the time in the 90s when the NCAA decided to award an automatic bid to the team that finished first in the regular season, and the ECAC used that as a reason to declare there was now going to be a "regular season champion." Prior to that, no one even gave a thought to there being a "regular season champion," so, to engage in revisionist history and claim one for a season preceding that is disingenuous at best. Yes, teams sought to win games to gain a higher seed for the tournament that determined the champion, but no one on the ice, behind the bench, in the press, or among the teams' fans, felt there was a "championship" involved.

I think it's important to keep in mind that Ben's "best team" and a league's or sport's or country's "champion" may indeed be, and often are, two different teams. Does anyone remember which major league baseball team had the best regular season record in 2010? But the Giants, who blew everyone away in the playoffs after making said playoffs only with a win on the seaon's last day, are and always will be the 2010 World Series champions. How about Ken Dryden's Canadiens in 1971? Are the 1971 Boston Bruins proud and content to say they were the "best team" in 1971 because they blew everyone else away in the regular season? Ask Bobby Orr or Phil Esposito and see what they have to say.

keep in mind that there was no set ECAC schedule until the 80's and it wasn't balanced until the HE teams left. Crowning a champion based on RS games would have been difficult or unfair when teams played radically different schedules. Having a tournament addressed this problem.

Champion has been intended to be the same as best in some sports at certain points in time. For example: baseball pre-expansion, where the pennant winner was simply the best team in the league. The WS was to pick a best team of the two league champions. Hockey has never really had this model though. The NHL has pretty much always used a large post-season tournament format.

munchkin
Vanessa has acquired Beer Darts from Josh '99, since he's being lame and not coming.

Well that's a fine "thank you"!

Ben

Chris '03
If regular season finish equals champion then the Presidents' Trophy should be more valuable than the Stanley Cup.

We've been socialized to think the reverse, but a larger sample size (particularly with a balanced schedule) is more likely to leave the best team at the top of the table. Playoffs may be more exciting, but they increase the importance of random variations -- bounces of the puck.

This is America, and in America we don't want to hear about your "sample size" and your "math"! The playoff champion is the champion!

Which is to say, you're right that a double round robin, like the ECAC regular season or all the big European soccer leagues, is a better way of determining the best team, but it seems pretty universally accepted in North American sports that the winner of the playoffs is the "champion. (Sorry Clarkson.) I find it interesting that the WCHA seems to feel more strongly about the regular season champion being the "champion" than any other North American sports league that I'm aware of (as indicated by the ridiculously oversized MacNaughton Cup), when the degree of unbalance in their schedule (a team plays each other team either twice or four times in a season, as opposed to in Hockey East where at least it's either twice or three times) makes it less likely to be the case than in a league with a balanced schedule.

Josh '99
This is America, and in America we don't want to hear about your "sample size" and your "math"! The playoff champion is the champion!

Granted America has a herpa-derp problem, we used to be grown up enough to recognize NL and AL pennant winners.

Josh '99
I find it interesting that the WCHA seems to feel more strongly about the regular season champion being the "champion" than any other North American sports league that I'm aware of (as indicated by the ridiculously oversized MacNaughton Cup), when the degree of unbalance in their schedule (a team plays each other team either twice or four times in a season, as opposed to in Hockey East where at least it's either twice or three times) makes it less likely to be the case than in a league with a balanced schedule.

History probably plays a role there. The WCHA has been around since 1960, and it evolved from some other conglomeration of Western teams (WIHL, maybe?) that came together around 1950 or so. The NCAA tournament took only four teams, generally two "East" and two "West", until 1981, and for a large number of those years, the WCHA post-season produced two finalists with no championship game. Why? Because those two finalists were (I want to say "always" but I better stick with "almost always" ) immediately given the two West spots in the NCAAs. Since there was no post-season champ in the WCHA, they made a bigger fuss over the regular-season champ. I think in those days the WCHA did play a more balanced schedule than they do now.

Trotsky
Granted America has a herpa-derp problem, we used to be grown up enough to recognize NL and AL pennant winners.

Yes, well (shake your cane with me here), the pennant winners used to be the two teams with the best record in the NL and AL. Nowadays, you gotta slog through I've-lost-count-of-how-many playoff rounds to figure out who they are. What do we have, "division winners" now? Oooh, aaah.

BTW, no matter how many "ECAC championships" they give themselves, Harvard still sucks.

Give My Regards
BTW, no matter how many "ECAC championships" they give themselves, Harvard still sucks.

That goes without saying.

Josh '99

munchkin
Vanessa has acquired Beer Darts from Josh '99, since he's being lame and not coming.

Well that's a fine "thank you"!

Thank you. We did have fun with the set. Although we learned, the cheap plastic darts that don't separate the tail work better when playing in a parking lot without a snow pack to soften the impact when missing the can. Valuable research performed in the name of slightly dangerous drinking games (Robin may have hit my leg several times).

munchkin

Josh '99

munchkin
Vanessa has acquired Beer Darts from Josh '99, since he's being lame and not coming.

Well that's a fine "thank you"!

Thank you. We did have fun with the set. Although we learned, the cheap plastic darts that don't separate the tail work better when playing in a parking lot without a snow pack to soften the impact when missing the can. Valuable research performed in the name of slightly dangerous drinking games (Robin may have hit my leg several times).

By the time I showed up, some contestants were standing off to the side of the board during the game. That was the first clue to the overall skill level involved.

munchkin

Josh '99

munchkin
Vanessa has acquired Beer Darts from Josh '99, since he's being lame and not coming.

Well that's a fine "thank you"!

Thank you. We did have fun with the set. Although we learned, the cheap plastic darts that don't separate the tail work better when playing in a parking lot without a snow pack to soften the impact when missing the can. Valuable research performed in the name of slightly dangerous drinking games (Robin may have hit my leg several times).

I didn't put the darts into the bag with the rest?

Trotsky

Give My Regards
BTW, no matter how many "ECAC championships" they give themselves, Harvard still sucks.

That goes without saying.

Just because something need not be said, doesn't mean it should not be said.

Josh '99

Trotsky

Give My Regards
BTW, no matter how many "ECAC championships" they give themselves, Harvard still sucks.

That goes without saying.

Just because something need not be said, doesn't mean it should not be said.

That also goes without saying.

Josh '99

Trotsky

Give My Regards
BTW, no matter how many "ECAC championships" they give themselves, Harvard still sucks.

That goes without saying.

Just because something need not be said, doesn't mean it should not be said.

And should be repeated. Harvard sucks!

Cornell Student happy not to have attended that other school.

Immediate induction into the Mug Shot Hall of Fame:
[www.usatoday.com]

Weder
Immediate induction into the Mug Shot Hall of Fame:
[www.usatoday.com]

93aiBbq.jpg

That's truly fantastic.

Josh '99

Weder
Immediate induction into the Mug Shot Hall of Fame:
[www.usatoday.com]

That's truly fantastic.

So, no one has been wasted before? I'd hate to think what some people might look like in that state.

Weder
Immediate induction into the Mug Shot Hall of Fame:
[www.usatoday.com]

More versions here.

Josh '99

Weder
Immediate induction into the Mug Shot Hall of Fame:
[www.usatoday.com]

93aiBbq.jpg

That's truly fantastic.

You can always tell a Harvard man.

In honor of this year's recipient: ECAC Last Place by Year.