the loss of the cha inevitable?

jy3 · April 25, 2006, 09:56:54 AM

http://www.uscho.com/news/id,12591/ANewWorldOrder.html

it will be interesting how this pans out. curious what everyone thinks about the possibility of the cha folding if they do not gain a 6th member

DeltaOne81 · April 25, 2006, 10:40:14 AM

Here's an idea. And one I think is better than anything mentioned in that article. How about splitting the AHA? AHA East & West (I suppose they Atlantic Hockey West doesn't make any sense, but you get the idea). Send Mercyhurst, Canisius, and RIT west, they're pretty darn far from most the AHA anyway (relatively).

Then you'd have a 6th conference of:
Bemidji, Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagra, RIT, RMU, UAH, Wayne State

And MC, Niagra, RIT, and Canisuis are natural rivals. MC and WSU or MC and RMU ain't bad either.

Other than the 'natural misfits' of UAH and Bemidji (other than in the WCHA for BSU), that's a fairly logical conference, spanning Rochester to Detroit and down to Pittsburgh, and is big enough to avoid being on the edge.

Atlantic Hockey could stay:
AIC, Air Force, Army, Bentley, Conn, HC, SHU & potentially Navy.

That's a little closer to the edge, but also cuts travel costs considerably. And I bet it'd be a lot easier to find a team to join that league (any of the dozens of New England D-III schools, or URI) than to get a team to join a western league.

Al DeFlorio · April 25, 2006, 11:17:35 AM

[quote DeltaOne81]Here's an idea. And one I think is better than anything mentioned in that article. [/quote]
Gets my vote, Fred. And I nominate YOU for commissioner! Makes too much sense for someone actually to do it.

Robb · April 25, 2006, 01:38:32 PM

[quote DeltaOne81]Here's an idea.

Then you'd have a 6th conference of:
Bemidji, Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagra, RIT, RMU, UAH, Wayne State

Atlantic Hockey could stay:
AIC, Air Force, Army, Bentley, Conn, HC, SHU & potentially Navy.
[/quote]
So would both of these be limited-scholarship, "cost containment" leagues? I can never, ever see Bemidji going for that. Their long term plan must be to join the WCHA, so I can't imagine them taking a step back from that goal. Nor Niagara, for that matter. OTOH, RIT will never be allowed to offer scholarships (unless they wholesale upgrade to D-1 or D-2), so I can't see them wanting to be in a league with "powerhouse" schools like Niagara/BSU who offer a full complement of scholarships.

That's the fundamental problem: geography clashes with philosophy. There aren't enough like-minded schools close enough to each other to form a viable league.

jy3 · April 25, 2006, 01:44:29 PM

maybe, though, for the benefit of all those teams, joining in a league even though u have different philosophies is the way to go. compromise may be better than making a decision for a team that doesn't exist.

Trotsky · April 25, 2006, 01:57:58 PM

If BSU wants into the WCHA, why don't they just join today? I'd think the league would love another natural rival for the Minny schools, and though Bemidji would get hammered for a few years, they would find it much easier to recruit with the WCHA logo on the sweater.

KeithK · April 25, 2006, 03:14:45 PM

[quote Trotsky]If BSU wants into the WCHA, why don't they just join today? I'd think the league would love another natural rival for the Minny schools, and though Bemidji would get hammered for a few years, they would find it much easier to recruit with the WCHA logo on the sweater.[/quote]I'd imagine that BSU has asked the WCHA many times for admission and must've been turned down. Having an odd number of teams (11) is usually bad for a conference, but would be easier to handle for a league like the WCHA where there no travel partners and there are already weeks where teams are idle mid season. Total number of conference games would be more of a concern - NC games are already limited. The league also might be hesitant to disrupt their playoff system. With eleven you either have some set of byes or you leave the 11th place team hom. Then if you're not taking everyone it's hard to justify the (awful) Final Five format, which they seem to be wedded to.

Al DeFlorio · April 25, 2006, 03:26:47 PM

[quote Robb]That's the fundamental problem: geography clashes with philosophy. There aren't enough like-minded schools close enough to each other to form a viable league.[/quote]
Dunno. The ECAC seems to work with six scholarship schools and six purists. Note that three of the latter played for the championship in Albany this year.

jtwcornell91 · April 25, 2006, 03:31:08 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Robb]That's the fundamental problem: geography clashes with philosophy. There aren't enough like-minded schools close enough to each other to form a viable league.[/quote]
Dunno. The ECAC seems to work with six scholarship schools and six purists.[/quote]

Actually, it's five and seven. Although it used to be three and nine not too long ago.

Al DeFlorio · April 25, 2006, 03:59:55 PM

[quote jtwcornell91]Actually, it's five and seven. Although it used to be three and nine not too long ago.[/quote]
Thanks. Keep forgetting Union still does it right.

Robb · April 25, 2006, 04:23:36 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Robb]That's the fundamental problem: geography clashes with philosophy. There aren't enough like-minded schools close enough to each other to form a viable league.[/quote]
Dunno. The ECAC seems to work with six scholarship schools and six purists. Note that three of the latter played for the championship in Albany this year.[/quote]
Yes, but I think you would agree that the Ivy schools are a special case. The reason that they don't offer scholarships (strong focus on academics) is both a blessing AND a curse. For the RITs of the world, it's maybe 10% blessing and 90% curse.

Union hasn't exactly been competitive, so I would count them on my side as exhibit A of why a cost-containment school does NOT want to be in a league with a bunch of Jock Factories.

ursusminor · April 25, 2006, 04:24:56 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote jtwcornell91]Actually, it's five and seven. Although it used to be three and nine not too long ago.[/quote]
Thanks. Keep forgetting Union still does it right.[/quote] They have no choice.

Trotsky · April 25, 2006, 04:30:36 PM

[quote ursaminor]They have no choice.[/quote]
What prevents the Union president from adopting athletic scholarships tomorrow? Is there something in the school charter?

Jerseygirl · April 25, 2006, 04:52:43 PM

Silly me, I read that thread title before seeing who started it, and thought the "cha" was something like "chi" or energy flow. I should have realized that a) that poster doesn't believe in caps and b) this crowd ain't that new-agey.

KeithK · April 25, 2006, 05:12:02 PM

[quote Trotsky][quote ursaminor]They have no choice.[/quote]
What prevents the Union president from adopting athletic scholarships tomorrow? Is there something in the school charter?[/quote]Union is a DIII school playing up and not grandfathered under the provision that allows Clarkson/SLU/RPI/CC to offer scholarships for hockey. Similarly RIT cannot offer scholarships as a DIII school playing up.