OT: speed skating

[The Rancor]

so i noticed almost all the speed skaters have gold colored blades.. i remember CCM had a super tac blade (made by tuuk?) back in the day. some of my coaches over the years had them. eh. i guess it relates to the cooperall.

[Trotsky]

The blades look longer this year.  Is this my imagination?

(Also, the ski jumpers' skiis look wider.)

[The Rancor]

longer skates, like longer skis, make you go faster. so most likely.
as for the skis, they are realy more wing than ski and i would immagine that they follow the same rules... more wing = more lift = more splintered femurs.

[Trotsky]

Why do longer skis make you go faster?  I'd have guessed more surface area = more friction.

[canuck89]

I think you're partly right.  The other half to that answer is that the long ski offers, yes more friction, but with that and the length comes greater stability.  Hockey skates noticeably move a little and don't hold a "line" as well on the ice.

[billhoward]

You could have longer skis that are narrower with the same surface area. Longer skis are more stable in a straight line which is mostly what downhillers do and the stability/friction tradeoff may be beneficial. Don't know how this affects skis but with inflated devices such as tires, the contact patch area remains the same no matter how wide the tire, but the shape changes. It's a factor of how much the thing on top of the tire (or ski?) weighs.

For recreational skiers, length has gone down. Try to find a pair of 200cm recreational skis nowadays.

[Trotsky]

[quote billhoward]For recreational skiers, length has gone down. Try to find a pair of 200cm recreational skis nowadays.[/quote]
Is that because it's harder to turn, and faster skiis are actually a bad thing (i.e., harder to control, leading to more broken ankles)?

I know that when I skiied the relatively icey slopes in the east, my skis were almost impossible to control, but when I skiied the same length at Mt. Bachelor in powder, they were perfect.  But they were only 180s, and I suck.

[billhoward]

Long skis definitely are more stable in a straight line, as it is with long wheelbase cars and with rifles (vs. handguns). Skates, too, which is where this thread started. But the cut (curve) of the sidewall affects turning also. I believe the length also does a better job damping vibration (as does the composition of the ski).

That said, I think an engineer should step in here and provide an intelligent answer rather than the WAGs of government majors such as me.

[Josh '99]

[quote billhoward]You could have longer skis that are narrower with the same surface area. Longer skis are more stable in a straight line which is mostly what downhillers do and the stability/friction tradeoff may be beneficial. Don't know how this affects skis but with inflated devices such as tires, the contact patch area remains the same no matter how wide the tire, but the shape changes. It's a factor of how much the thing on top of the tire (or ski?) weighs. [/quote]Tires aren't a useful comparison, really, because you're not trying to reduce friction in that case.

I don't *think* the contact area of a ski should effect friction, because friction is a function of the downward force (i.e. the skier's weight), not the surface area.  I think canuck89 is probably right about stability.

[canuck89]

Yes, I must have been a little sleepy this morning.  In fact, the longer they are the less Frictional force there is per unit area.  However, I do believe that spreading the friction out over a longer length (though it is the same force as jmh30 stated), would lead to greater stability.

[ugarte]

[quote canuck89]Yes, I must have been a little sleepy this morning.  In fact, the longer they are the less Frictional force there is per unit area.  However, I do believe that spreading the friction out over a longer length (though it is the same force as jmh30 stated), would lead to greater stability.[/quote]I recently received a confidential paper on friction from the Netherlands skating team. PM me if you are interested.

[Jerseygirl]

Whatever, Ugarte. I eat lunch with Bode Miller on occasion. PM me if you want more details on ski length and speed.

[nyc94]

[quote Jerseygirl]Whatever, Ugarte. I eat lunch with Bode Miller on occasion. PM me if you want more details on ski length and speed.[/quote]

It would be better if you had an occasional après ski beer with Bode.

[cornelldavy]

[quote nyc94][quote Jerseygirl]Whatever, Ugarte. I eat lunch with Bode Miller on occasion. PM me if you want more details on ski length and speed.[/quote]

It would be better if you had an occasional après ski beer with Bode.[/quote]

Or an avant ski beer.

[Jerseygirl]

Yeah, well, you know, we chill at the lodge and all, but I'd rather emphasize the lunch part of it so you know I'm not just some snowbunny who bothers the Bodester at parties.