Video Suggestions

[Trustnduzt]

Hey guys,

I've been browsing around the forums and have seen many complaints about some of the  quality of the video for the webcasts; I run the wide angle camera. Any suggestions for how we could do it better? Do we not follow the puck accurately enough? Do we change shots too often? I would appreciate the feedback so we can hopefully start improving some of the video quality for next weeks game. As far as last night's game goes, sorry about the announcer's hand in the way on the west end goal -- he was oblivious to the whole thing.

Thanks!

[Tub(a)]

You change shots too often in my opinion, but others may like that.

I wouldn't be opposed to just sticking to a traditional wide-angle center-ice lens for this type of broadcast, at least with that we can always see the puck go into the net (as long as the cameraman is paying attention). The angle switching has been too spastic and rapid, and some angles (the low corners for example) are rarely useful.

If you could get some sort of replay going, that would be a good time to use alternate angles.

Thanks for lettings us give input.

[Trustnduzt]

As far as the changing shots goes, yeah you are probably right. It's mostly a function of the obvious (to get the best view of the puck) and because we have so many cameras to choose from.

As far as the low corners go, yeah, they suck. I've tried advocating for a corner camera, like the ones they used when they broadcasted the Clarkson game. Those give great shots. I'm not entirely sure why those didn't work out, but that would certainly solve the problem.

[billhoward]

You really run the camera, or you're just looking to stir up trouble by posing as same? OK, here goes. Some of us (say we) know a lot about video and the rest of us think we know a lot about video, just as we think we know more about what Cornell should have done now that the game is over and we have a chance to digest the game. Here goes:

- The main camera isn't high enough. It doesn't clear either the laptops or something else (Anvil cases?) in the pressbox. You need a taller tripod and a box for the camera guy to stand on.

- Switching problems. The camera in the east end corner was the live feed for goal #1 against Cornell and there wasn't much of an angle to see what was happening. Can't recall if that was the same for Yale #2 also.

- Occasonally (once or twice Saturday) there's live action on the ice when the live feed is a camera panning behind the glass at the west end. I'm not talking about say the crowd shot after a Cornell goal.

- When Cornell/CSTV uses the occasional broadcast feed, the quality is better, suggesting the cameras being used the rest of the time don't have the ability to capture details in shadow or the color of the darker uniforms.

- What kind of viewfinder are you using? It seems as if once in a while the camera loses track of the play or isn't panned to center on the play. My guess is you're using a small viewfinder and it's hard to track, as opposed to using dopey cameramen.

There's other stuff we (on the outside) think is obviously missing such as replays. How hard would that be to have a Mark Tape [actually, Mark Disk, right?] feature you hit when the goal light goes on and you then can immediately buffer and stream 10 seconds before and 3 seconds afterwards? And then you (whoever control choice of camera feed) play that back while players are skating up for the faceoff.

Plus we're grumpy about the whole operation that CSTV has or should have control over, such as how soon the feed goes live (6:59pm is not good).

[Trustnduzt]

Yep, I really do run the camera and have been for two years.

A lot of it is logistical. There really is no other spot to place such a big camera with the press box. We could absolutely try to angle it a bit higher, but unfortunately, the viewfinder is quite small (2" x 2" or something to that effect).

As far as the camera losing track of the play, that's my fault. Sometimes its hard to keep following the play if there's a quick shift in possession, etc.

The one thing that really gets me is that our view gets the laptops in the box every time we go toward the east end goal. It's so cramped in that box so it's hard to fit everyone accordingly. That's something that really needs to be changed. Maybe when they renovate the rink...

Replay is a great idea -- I've tried suggesting that a few times. It should not be to hard to do and would probably just involve a few more cables here and there. I'll keep ya posted.

[Tub(a)]

[quote Trustnduzt]As far as the changing shots goes, yeah you are probably right. It's mostly a function of the obvious (to get the best view of the puck) and because we have so many cameras to choose from.[/quote]

I think it's a safe assumption that most people willing to pay cash for a medium quality online feed of college hockey are going to be familiar enough with the sport that they don't necessarily need to see the puck in the highest detail at every second. TV broadcasts do that almost out of necessity to appeal to a broader audience of hockey fan. I'm not sure you have that problem here.

I know that I appreciate a simple center-ice camera because it allows the best overall angle to see the play develop and ensures that I won't miss anything.

[DeltaOne81]

Trustnduzt,

I don't have any distinct comments right now about the quality although I agree with most of what's been said (too much reliance on poor-view corner cameras, too much switching, no replay, etc).

Losing the puck is very frustrating. There was a goal this season that the camera was looking the wrong way - and another one that the camera was kinda tight on the net, so that we saw the light come on for the goal, but couldn't see whoever shot it.


But what I really want to say is... I think our main frustration with the whole operation is that there's no way for the end user to communicate with whoever is in charge. When the feed goes down (which hasn't been as bad as it used to be), if we call CSTV they just say "um, yeah, wait 5 minutes", or half the time they tell us "that game isn't being carried tonight". Oh yeah, you mean in the middle of the 2nd period they decided not to carry it, huh?

So I think the main thing is communication. It'd be easier to be understanding if we knew what was actually going on when there were problems, and if we had a caring, concerned ear which we could share our comments and know that they were trying to improve it. For coming on here you are to be commended... seriously. You could have gotten defensive and hid in the corner, or insulted us back, but you didn't. Just knowing that there's someone who cares and can explain the difficulties behind it is a MAJOR step forward.

So I'd say if there was *one* thing to improve with CSTV, it'd be better communications. When the feed goes down at the rink, you should be able to call CSTV and they put a message in their system regarding the problem and an Est. Time to Repair - so the reps we talk to, don't have to just make up lies. If we have a comment, there should be a feedback box on CSTV (not just the general customer service address), where we *know* that they are passing it on to you, or to whoever can take it into consideration. That we are being listened to by someone who can make a change.

All the further improvements would then flow naturally from there. So THANK YOU for coming on here and opening the lines of communications. It's just a shame that it had to be behind-the-scenes through-a-message board since CSTV has no way to accomplish this. And while I realize that the system will probably never be broadcast quality, having the option at all is a great service which we do appreciate... even if you can't tell sometimes

- Fred

[Trustnduzt]

Thanks for the support, Fred, I appreciate it.

My power, is unfortunately, quite limited BUT I can absolutely relay some of these concerns on to higher powers. I do not directly work for CSTV but interact with many of the people on a daily basis in the box.

The feed going down is frustrating for everyone and often times the source of the problem is unclear. An estimate time to repair should be implemented to help keep people up to date on the problem. The situation sort of compares to a delay at the airport, where the captain doesn't want to give any information until it is final. Perhaps that is what is going here -- that CSTV won't be an estimated time just in case they can't meet that deadline.

But again, thanks for the support. Hopefully we can make this better for everyone.

[Jim Hyla]

Trustnduzt,

I go to all home games, so I don't subscribe. However I'm thinking about it just to get the archived games. Considering all that I read about here, I'd also like to say thank you. I think everyone realizes that this is somewhat new and that all the players are somewhat inexperienced. Maybe if you would just tell the powers to be to read this  thread, they will understand how important simple communication can be.

As for suggestions, have you talked to administration about the renovations and how this will fit into it? It would not surprise me to learn that they haven't even given it a thought. Please ask.

Again thank you.:-)

[Beeeej]

My primary complaint is that on narrower shots, the camera is often simply not fast enough to keep up with the play.  Several times in the last two weekends, the camera has spent ten or fifteen seconds showing us players and ice where the puck had recently been; it should be showing us where the puck is.  This has even been true on a few goals, especially during the power play.

Don't zoom in and try to follow the puck when it's being cycled.  I would vastly prefer a wider angle with somewhat less detail to constantly losing sight of what's actually happening in the game.

Beeeej

[Trustnduzt]

I've heard a few rumblings about the renovations...

First, they are going to renovate the locker rooms for both teams. They are also going to expand some seating around by the concession stands and move those around as well. As far as a bigger box...well....I don't know. But if we had just like 10 more feet on either side, that'd be fantastic. :-)

[Rosey]

[quote Trustnduzt]I've heard a few rumblings about the renovations...

First, they are going to renovate the locker rooms for both teams. They are also going to expand some seating around by the concession stands and move those around as well. As far as a bigger box...well....I don't know. But if we had just like 10 more feet on either side, that'd be fantastic. :-)[/quote]
Well, from what I've heard, they're adding rows to the south side of the rink, so the press box will necessarily have to be moved, and hopefully rebuilt.

BTW, I am ecstatic to get any video at all: I call 1998-2002 the "dark ages," because I could only listen to the broadcasts, which really sucks.  While I'd love to get better overall quality---higher bitrate, better customer service, replays, better camera, better camera angles , road games---I don't think I can quite express to you how much I value the service you provide.  So, an emphatic "thank you."

Kyle

[cbuckser]

Trustnzudt, I, too, sincerely appreciate your work for the webcasts and your willingness to solicit suggestions from the viewers.  I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that the center-ice camera should be used most of the time and that the camera should rarely zoom in on the puck.  Having a tight view on the puck at any given time is less important than a wide view that gives the viewers a sense of how a play is developing and where the puck may be going.  The play immediately around the puck is not the only important aspect of the game that the camera should capture.

Thank you for seeking this feedback.  The video broadcasts are a wonderful service for out-of-town alumni.  Improving those broadcasts would be great.

[TimV]

Agree with all that's been said and I add my thanks - I look forward to the broadcasts since otherwise I wouldn't see Red until they came to the Capital District.

One thing though - Don't get rid of the Corner cameras outrightly - that shot is fun when there's puckmucking in the endboards or post-shot roughing in the crease.  Or roughing anywhere else, of course....:-D

[KeithK]

My general feeling about hockey broadcasts is that the center ice shot conveys the most information and should be used most of the time.  The other cameras are great for replays and analysis during stoppages - catching details that the main camera can't.  But you lose too much information about the overall flow of the game with the narow shots while the action is ongoing.