Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office

[canuck999]

"When several hundred students showed up at Lynah to pick up line numbers, there was a large push to enter the building, police and staff on hand were 'ignored and overwhelmed' and additional police and staff assistance was required."

I love it!  They won't even offer a formal apology, and worse yet, they state that students ignored the crowd control on hand.  PROBLEM:  There was no crowd control for the first 25 minutes!!!  The athletics department makes me sick.

[jeeby]

lol, I wouldn't expect any less.

[jdm]

Wow! No mention of the closed doors, the split line created by the stairs and the entrance above, the poorly executed crowd control, etc. Excuses for those failures would have been better than just blaming the students. "Several hundred students"? Makes it sound like 300-500 rather than ~2000.

[Scersk '97]

Wow.  Andy Noel does it again:

http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/09/29/433b367008fd8

Does he even remember 1991?  He was in Ithaca at the time.  Didn't he read the paper?

"However, when several hundred students showed up at Lynah to pick up line numbers, there was a large push to enter the building, police and staff on hand were ignored and overwhelmed and additional police and staff assistance was required."

Several hundred students?  I wonder why *over a thousand* students would've decided to show up at that place at that particular time?  "No one could have known that the levees would fail."

And then this:

"At this point, as a result of Monday’s problems and the actions of some unruly students who chose not to follow guidelines set forth for the hockey ticket line procedure, as well as those who ignored the orders of Cornell police and Athletic Department staff, have forced the reevaluation of the hockey ticket distribution once again."

Well, of course, it was a few "bad apples" that wouldn't "play the game."  It was poor sportsmanship.  Ever seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil?"

Noel's letter was inaccurate and insulting and completely typical for him.  What an ass.

[Beeeej]

I gather from first-hand reports here on eLF that the police were not even present for the first 15-20 minutes of the chaos.  I also gather that there was no provision made for the formation of a "line" outside the door, and that there was no Athletics staff actually outside the building to encourage formation of a line or help organize things.  I further gather that the police did nearly as much harm as good, as their idea of "crowd control" was to order the front of the crowd to move back without first having the back of the crowd move at all.

I would suggest that these, among other facts, if true, should be reported in letters to the Sun by people who were there, in as polite but firm a way as possible so that Noel's version does not become historical fact.

EDIT:  Just to make it clear, I'd normally be happy to write such a letter myself, as I happen to be pretty good at them (IMHO), but I wasn't there and I would be reporting "facts" second-hand at best.  I think someone who was there should tell the story as carefully as possible, and anyone interested in writing that sort of letter is welcome to contact me off-eLF for help with language, grammar, or anything else.

Beeeej

[Will]

Noelie, you're doing a heckuva job.

[Jacob '06]

I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.

[Will]

[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:

 I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.[/q]

Apparently, there already was some form of student involvement in developing the line, as some have mentioned the Student Assembly was a part of the process in some way.

A student committee for this might be a good idea, but the problem that I see is, who chooses the committee?  Athletics?  If so, who gets chosen?  How many are chosen?  Should there be an on-campus student club/organization for this, even though the Red Line idea fell through a few years back?  What's to prevent this student committee from cheating so that they and their 100 best friends get the best line numbers thanks to advance notice of the location?

I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.

[DeltaOne81]

[Q]Will Wrote:

 Noelie, you're doing a heckuva job.[/q]

LOL! Quote of the week! :-D

[Liz '05]

[Q]Will Wrote:

 [Q2]Jacob '06 Wrote:

 I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.[/Q]
Apparently, there already was some form of student involvement in developing the line, as some have mentioned the Student Assembly was a part of the process in some way.

A student committee for this might be a good idea, but the problem that I see is, who chooses the committee?  Athletics?  If so, who gets chosen?  How many are chosen?  Should there be an on-campus student club/organization for this, even though the Red Line idea fell through a few years back?  What's to prevent this student committee from cheating so that they and their 100 best friends get the best line numbers thanks to advance notice of the location?

I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.[/q]

The problem with using students, as I see it, is that the ones interested in being on the committee are also going to be trying to get tickets for themselves.  You can't really discuss the problems with, say, the Section A entrance to Lynah as a location, just the general idea of a surprise announcement, because that's just asking people to suppress their natural instinct to benifit themselves.  It's really hard to criticize a plan without any details, so the student committee is nearly useless.

So, who could be on such a committee?  Maybe alums?  I'd be more than willing to offer feedback on any proposed plans - and I bet there are a lot of people here that would say the same thing.  Granted, I'd have a tough time getting to Ithaca on a regular basis to discuss this, but I'm sure Athletics has the ability to send giant files through email and hold conference calls.  Obviously, there's still a chance of leaked information, but it's a lot harder to use the information when you don't know many people on campus.  You also have the benefit of many years of experience with line procedures (or lack thereof).

How to choose the committee is a much harder question...  First, someone needs to convince Athletics that it is necessary.  Then, Athletics could choose a committee that is full of people who 1) strongly support the hockey team, 2) have experience in a variety of ticket distribution methods, 3) have experience/interest in this sort of problem-solving.  Maybe applications/letters of intent are the best method...I'm not sure.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[Beeeej]

Applications/letters of intent...?

Sounds like part of a procedure that will produce results in 2014 or so.

Beeeej

[KeithK]

That's the thing -  it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked.  The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.

Get rid of the secrecy.  Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August.  Evem better, announce it in April.  Then let people do as they please.  If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).

I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics.  Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?).  Let them decide.

[Liz '05]

It's the best I could come up with off the top of my head  Even if they come here and say, "Hey, who's interested?" they'd still need to get from 30 responders to a managable committee size.

[Liz '05]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 That's the thing -  it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked.  The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
[/q]

Athletics seems pretty convinced that if they just tweak the current procedure a bit, it'll be perfect.  And the current procedure requires secrecy.  It might be easier to effect change by working within the system.

[Beeeej]

[Q]Liz '05 Wrote:Athletics seems pretty convinced that if they just tweak the current procedure a bit, it'll be perfect.  And the current procedure requires secrecy.  It might be easier to effect change by working within the system.[/q]

From where do you get this idea that Athletics is married to the current procedure and only willing to tweak it here and there, rather than scrapping it and starting from scratch?

Beeeej