Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office

[Liz '05]

It's my impression.  They may not be.  But this is why I think that.

1) They didn't change it significantly from last year to this year (with the exception of the 2 tickets per line number to 1 ticket per line number rule).

2) What I see as an unwillingness to hold themselves accountable for the mess this year.  See: Andy Noel's letter to the Sun, which seems to blame the students exclusively.

Edit to add:  The other reason I suggest addressing the secrecy concern is that it keeps all options, including tweaking the current procedure, open.  

[calgARI '07]

They took student input in the fall of 2003 after that year's disaster.  At the meeting was the VP and Pres of the SA, Ben Rocky-Harris, somebody else who didn't say much, and myself.  We discussed a lot of options and came up with the current format that they have done the last two seasons as the procedure.  It certainly has its deficiencies, but the idea of it is a good one I think that is unless a doorway is involved.  Putting 2000 people through a doorway makes this plan bound for disaster.  When we put forward our recommendation two years ago, we said it was contingent upon it being in an open field and/or in an obscure location away from the middle of campus, that way people will progressively filter in.  That is how last year's procedure went and I thought it was very good in its order.  Again, the people making the decisions destroyed any possibility of it working when they decided to do it at the most cental, non-obscure location possible and having stairs and a doorway as part of the location.  Not only that, the door did not open until several minutes after the announcement.  And also, contrary to what Noel says, there were no cops or anybody there until several minutes after the announcement.  There was no order and although the students could have been more orderly, it was totally the fault of the organizers for not having any sense or forsight.
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.  Also of note is that there will be a few hundred more student seats next year as a result of the renovation.

[KeithK]

I disagree that the current system is anythign approaching perfect, obviously.  I can't argue with you about "working within the system", but then I'm not likely to put too much actual effort into changing things, aside from sniping on this board. :-)

[billhoward]

>>> They took student input in the fall of 2003 after that year's disaster.

This is progress. Not the same disaster repeated each year.  

BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.

[KeithK]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.
[/q]BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!  

 ::laugh::

[Beeeej]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets?[/q]

They ask both of them to be on their best behavior.

Beeeej

[CUlater 89]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 That's the thing -  it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked.  The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.

Get rid of the secrecy.  Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August.  Evem better, announce it in April.  Then let people do as they please.  If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).

I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics.  Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?).  Let them decide. [/q]

Isn't is clear to everyone that the University has mandated that Athletics not encourage/require lining up during class time?  Noel evens mentions having to "abide by University guidelines and address faculty concerns..."

The reason it's so clear to me is because Keith's idea is spot on.  Not only that, it's essentially similar to my recollection of the line in the mid- to late-80s.  I don't remember exactly when the ticket sale announcements were made, but essentially, word would get out that a significant (relative term) number of people had started camping out.  The line started at the Section A entrance and wrapped around Lynch (pre-Alberding/Fieldhouse/Bartels) along the wall (and then off elsewhere (I think along Alumni Fields)).  Line checks were random and you had to show your student ID (you may have been able to hold one other person's spot).  The night before the sale, the doors opened; attendants had the master list that the line monitors had been keeping, checked your ID and gave you a colored piece of paper with your line number on it (each class had a different color, so seniors got priority etc.).  Then we slept in Lynah for the night and seat selection began at 8 a.m.

[redhair34]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:

I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.[/q]

As I've said before, I too believe this is the best way to go.  I've talked to many fellow faithful about the idea and they all seem to like the General Admission idea.  

Still, it seems as though there are, for the most part, four prevailing suggestions for improving the ticket policy on ELF:

1) The "set the date and location (many have suggested the Tuesday of fall break) far in advance, and let people line up whenever they want" policy

2) some sort of General Admission policy

3) some sort of lottery system that is based on seniority

4) scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games

I think we should present and fully articulate the specifics of each policy/suggestion (not limited to the four above), debate their pros and cons, and try and come to some sort of consensus as to which is the "best" (this is meant to be a term of art).  Then some of us can take the initiative to contact Athletics and whomever else at the appropriate time to offer our help and try to sell a ticket distribution proposal.  Instead of each of us submitting proposals to athletics, I think it would be more constructive and in our best interest to utilize the collective knowledge/experience (both past and present)/effort of the posters on elf to take ownership of the ticket process that we all seem to care so much about.  If you think this would be an exercise in futility, then don't waste your time with it.  I'm sure many of us are willing to take the chance that our suggestion might fall on deaf (dumb, ignorant, stubborn) ears.

What does everyone think?

[Jacob '06]

[Q]redhair34 Wrote:

 [Q2]calgARI '07 Wrote:

I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.[/Q]
As I've said before, I too believe this is the best way to go.  I've talked to many fellow faithful about the idea and they all seem to like the General Admission idea.  

Still, it seems as though there are, for the most part, two prevailing suggestions for improving the ticket policy on ELF:

1) The "set the date and location (many have suggested the Tuesday of fall break) far in advance, and let people line up whenever they want" policy

2) some sort of General Admission policy

I think we should present and fully articulate the specifics of each policy/suggestion (not limited to the two above), debate their pros and cons, and try and come to some sort of consensus as to which is the "best" (this is meant to be a term of art).  Then some of us can take the initiative to contact Athletics and whomever else at the appropriate time to offer our help and try to sell a ticket distribution proposal.  Instead of each of us submitting proposals to athletics, I think it would be more constructive and in our best interest to utilize the collective knowledge/experience (both past and present)/effort of the posters on elf to take ownership of the ticket process that we all seem to care so much about.  If you think this would be an exercise in futility, then don't waste your time with it.  I'm sure many of us are willing to take the chance that our suggestion might fall on deaf (dumb, ignorant, stubborn) ears.
[/q]


I would add to you two listed above a couple more things that have been discussed:

Some sort of lottery system that is based on seniority

Scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games (this and the lining up whenever seem to be the only two procedures that reward the most loyal fans)

[KeithK]

[q]Isn't is clear to everyone that the University has mandated that Athletics not encourage/require lining up during class time? Noel evens mentions having to "abide by University guidelines and address faculty concerns..."[/q]You are probably right, but it would be nice if the folks mandating this would put out a specific statement saying as much.  Otherwise we are left to speculate whether the Athletic Dept. is simply using this as justification.

Even if the central administration has mandated something along the lines of what you're saying, it should still be possible to hold a long term line.  Simply state in advance that random line checks will not be held during the hours of 8am and 4pm weekdays and possibly 7-9 on prelim nights.  Then no one has to miss class to be in line but people do have to stay over night and all evening.  Nothing stops someone from studying on line.

[redhair34]

[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:

I would add to you two listed above a couple more things that have been discussed [/q]

Done.  Thank you for your input.

[Q]
Scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games (this and the lining up whenever seem to be the only two procedures that reward the most loyal fans)
[/q]

What about General Admission?  The fans who show up earliest for the games (aka the most deserving) get the best seats.  This plan has the added benefit of more students showing up prior to face-off.

[scott]

The system would have worked if they had chose a better location where they could actually form a line.  Last year, when they did it in the parking lot, everyone came from the same direction (up tower road) and a line was formed in the lot because as soon as you ran up, you saw a line of people that was controlled by AD staff.  Instead of creating a "line" where there are multiple ways to get on this line, they should have seperated people by having them run somewhere, just like they did last year.  Not to mention that there were already 500 or more people roaming around the exact area where they were issuing the numbers.  Did they not think that issuing numbers where everyone already was wasn't going to cause a riot sitation? Didn't they see (or know about) the false alarm on saturday night?  Makes no sense.  They should have seperated all those people gathered by Teagle/Bartels by having them go somewhere else! instead of having people push to try and get through a door and up stairs on a rainy night.

[TCHL8842]

I was thinking about it, if people still want a line but dont want to sacrifice academics is to announce when and where the ticket line will be over the summer.  The time set should be sometime the week before school starts so people can come up and only the true faithful will camp out the week before school starts to get tickets.  This awards people that really want tickets, should get rid of many factetimers, and not sacrifice academics.  It seems to me to accomplish all the goals that people here want and what the administration wants.

[Beeeej]

Many students have summer employment commitments that are scheduled to end just before the semester begins, often as a required part of their financial aid package.  It would be wrong to ask them to leave their jobs early, or consider them facetimers for not doing so.

Beeeej

[redhair34]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 Many students have summer employment commitments that are scheduled to end just before the semester begins, often as a required part of their financial aid package.  It would be wrong to ask them to leave their jobs early, or consider them facetimers for not doing so.

Beeeej[/q]

...Not to mention those that must endure painful RA training ::yark::