Men's Lax Tournament 2024

[chimpfood]

I like the late start on a Friday, that way I'll be able to go to both games.

[Swampy]

This year, Friday games are 6 and 8:30. When the day's temp will reach the high 70s in the afternoon. Won't be as nice Sunday, rain not (yet) forecast.

I don't like that 1 v 4 is the late game and 2 v 3 is early. In the Northeast in early May temperatures usually are very comfortable at 6 PM. And the late start is a disadvantage when teams are evenly matched and young athletes need their rest.

Of course, the #1 team is the home team and likely the biggest attraction in the bunch. So, attendance may be greater with the late start. But since when does money trump fairness? ::crazy::

[billhoward]

This was just coincidence ... your last sentence included Money, Trump and Fairness ?

I'd like to believe any college lacrosse player whether just turned 18 or maybe 22 or 23, no one is so young or so old a game at 6pm vs. 8:30pm is going to affect his abilities.

I get the advantage of the ECAC 1-seed at Lake Placid wanting the 4 pm semifinal game for an extra 3 hours of rest for a game 24 hours later, and also, their game over and won (except Quinnipiac didn't), they can sit and watch the style of play of their Saturday night opponents.

If Cornell as host had the choice (?), I might want the later game so more fans can drive up from metro New York to watch. But so could Yale, Princeton or Penn fans.

[upprdeck]

This was just coincidence ... your last sentence included Money, Trump and Fairness ?

I'd like to believe any college lacrosse player whether just turned 18 or maybe 22 or 23, no one is so young or so old a game at 6pm vs. 8:30pm is going to affect his abilities.

I get the advantage of the ECAC 1-seed at Lake Placid wanting the 4 pm semifinal game for an extra 3 hours of rest for a game 24 hours later, and also, their game over and won (except Quinnipiac didn't), they can sit and watch the style of play of their Saturday night opponents.

If Cornell as host had the choice (?), I might want the later game so more fans can drive up from metro New York to watch. But so could Yale, Princeton or Penn fans.

Do we think there will be a sig attendance jump from NYC for a late night game? if you are making the drive you need to give yourself 4-5 hrs no matter when it starts .

[billhoward]

Do we think there will be a sig attendance jump from NYC for a late night game? if you are making the drive you need to give yourself 4-5 hrs no matter when it starts .

I'm making this up as I go along: Looking for all possible reasons why the school or the league chose the 1-seed in the late game not early game. And why it may have gone the other way.
Me, I would have chosen early game:
* Weather is nicer at 6pm. Turns out it may still be in the upper 60s at 8:30 But if the game played in the weather of Saturday -- rainy, temps probably in the 50s by dark -- it'd be miserable for the fans and players.
* 1-seed plays early game, they get to see Yale-Princeton one more time.
* More Cornell students might to the early game and then go find a party.

[upprdeck]

last year they played the same schedule in Columbia

Cornell/yale game one had 2100
penn/prin game 2 had 1400

If you wanted the best weather temp for both games play at 4/7

It should be ok this week though, but still once the sun goes down it wont feel as nice sitting out there until 11.

[billhoward]

Time of day doesn't matter all that much. This is May not March 3. Lacrosse is still playable when temps are in the 40s. Way more important is that it's not in New Haven or Princeton or Philadelphia. At Columbia was okay because so many alumni are in the metro NY area.

[upprdeck]

Timing matters not at all to the players other than playing a game and getting home after midnight even for the Cornell kids

But for the fans its not nearly as enjoyable.

Do most people take kids to movies that start at 9pm?

If hockey started all the home games at 9pm you would see a drop in attendance as well.

now this could all be TV driven as well with the time slot.

[billhoward]

Good point, taking kids or grandkids < middle-school age to an 8:30 game.

Conversely if your kid plays a youth / HS spring sport, odds are greater it was an afternoon game. Or will be a Saturday game and hopefully not in the morning. Assuming you're in the Syracuse-Ithaca-Rochester area, a reasonable ride home.

I do think about parents / grandparents taking kids to Lynah, where the language gets more raW over time and assuming the kids can actually make out the words:

See ya, you goon --> See ya, asshole

Rough 'em up, rough 'em up --> fuck 'em up.

BTW, last year Columbia offered $5/pp/game group seating any age if you had a group of 20 or more. Let's see if this is an Ivy rule or site by site. No group seating for the 2022 tournament at Brown.

[CU77]

I'm guessing here, but I think the #1 seed playing the late game is a League decision to mitigate the top seed's home-field advantage. When the ILT was at a neutral site, the #1 seed got the advantage of playing the early game. But prior to the switch to neutral NYC, the #1 seed always played the late game.

[scoop85]

I'm guessing here, but I think the #1 seed playing the late game is a League decision to mitigate the top seed's home-field advantage. When the ILT was at a neutral site, the #1 seed got the advantage of playing the early game. But prior to the switch to neutral NYC, the #1 seed always played the late game.

But I would think one of the benefits of earning the #1 seed would be to be able to play the early game. No reason that advantage should be mitigated.

[billhoward]

Heh! That actually makes sense: play the later game, take a little off the advantage of playing at home.

Assuming the Ivy League made rational decisions. I was thinking they were thinking more people would turn out for a late game. Or they (ILT wizards) were thinking: More Cornell folk are local when it's in Ithaca, so the late game is no big deal getting home. Whereas the Yale and Princeton people, a lot of them metro NY people, can drive home after the 6pm game, be home by midnight, then the winner's side drives up and back for a Sunday day trip.

[Swampy]

Heh! That actually makes sense: play the later game, take a little off the advantage of playing at home.

Assuming the Ivy League made rational decisions. I was thinking they were thinking more people would turn out for a late game. Or they (ILT wizards) were thinking: More Cornell folk are local when it's in Ithaca, so the late game is no big deal getting home. Whereas the Yale and Princeton people, a lot of them metro NY people, can drive home after the 6pm game, be home by midnight, then the winner's side drives up and back for a Sunday day trip.

I actually think it's less complicated than this.

Of the 4 teams, the home team is likely to have the highest fan turnout. If the home team is scheduled for the early game, many -- if not most -- of its fans will leave before the second game. However, if the home team is playing the late game, then some of its fans will likely also attend the early game. Therefore, to maximize actual (and paid) attendance, the home team goes last. Add to this the 1/4 & 2/3 pairings, and you have 2 vs 3 followed by 1 vs 4. Q.E.D.

The idea that the late game has greater attendance because it gives people more time to drive doesn't seem credible. According to Google Maps, the university closest to Ithaca is Penn, which is 3h 43m away. With the game starting at 8:30, one would have to leave Philadelphia by 4:00 to be on time. If one's going to take off Friday at 4:00, they might as well take off at noon. Besides, real lacrosse fans who would drive this far (228 mi.) would take the day off in order to arrive in time to check into their hotel and have dinner before the first game.

When the games were played "at" Columbia, the subway from my son's house in Brooklyn took 1h 15m. Driving in, out, & around NYC is no picnic. This make me think most people who attended the games either lived in the Greater New York area or decided to spend the weekend in NYC, which is much better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

If driving time were the main consideration, the league would pick a geographically central point, like Yale, or perhaps a more neutral-but-geographically central location, like Albany or Poughkeepsie. Or, maybe someplace that's a lacrosse hotbed, like Massapequa.

Interestingly, the other 3 teams in this year's ILT are the quickest drives to Cornell: Pn - 3:43, Pr - 3:52, Y - 4:28. Compare to H - 5:11, D - 5:14, & B - 5:17.

I think a few other things could attract more people and make the event more successful. At Columbia the food sucked, especially considering the city where it's located. One of the Halal food booths from lower Manhattan, or even knishes on a grill, would have made the event more enjoyable.

Next weekend, maybe have a food truck or two in a parking lot near the Kopf. Also, starting early enough to have pregame tailgating would add a lot. Adding more sports or cultural events for Saturday (OK, it's Finals, so maybe not the Dead; but how about a group like Lake St. Dive or Donna the Buffalo?) would be a great way to make people want to spend the weekend in Ithaca in early May.

The problem with such things is that with the current system we don't know where the ILT will be until as late as the week before. But my bigger point of making the weekend into more than just 3 lacrosse games (of which most fans will be interested in only 2 or 1) could make the ILT a big party rather than just an athletic event. If the league could pull this off, more people will attend the games, and they'll have a great time all weekend.

[upprdeck]

So we think they over think the HF advantage for lax is too much so force the home team to play late at night and have less time after the time to get treatment/recover if they win?

Or we think they are worried about the 100 people driving 4 hrs to the game for one of the other 3 teams?

[Chris '03]

Interesting wrinkle in the MAAC tournament. They play a six team tournament with two byes. The top remaining semifinalist hosts championship weekend. BUT that team must be a full MAAC member. So 3 seeded Manhattan (who beat Q in a play in) will host this weekend even though Sacred Heart and LIU are seeded 1 and 2 because it's the highest full MAAC team.

Go forth and overthink who should get the early game there.