Men's Lax Tournament 2024

[billhoward]

Not much this weekend to affect the outcome of the Ivy race with three weekends of play left. Yale, Cornell, Penn, all 3-1 Ivy, Princeton 2-1.

One game with the outcome not clear:
* 16 Harvard at 14 Penn, 1 pm
Two games with the visiting teams likely to win:
* 7 Yale at 59 Dartmouth 3:30 pm
* 12 Princeton at 40 Brown, 3:30 pm
Non-league game Sunday
* 10 Cornell - 1 Notre Dame at LIU's stadium, 12:30 pm

[CU77]

We want Harvard to beat Penn. If Cornell then beats Harvard and Dartmouth, Cornell will host the ILT no matter what else happens.

Harvard leads Penn 9-7 at the half.

[ugarte]

Penn 13, Harvard 12 4:18 remaining in Q4

[Al DeFlorio]

Penn 13, Harvard 12 4:18 remaining in Q4

14-12 final minute, Penn ball

[ugarte]

15-12 Penn final. They had possession for almost all of the final 4 minutes and made a save on Harvard's one decent shot.

[billhoward]

Penn 15, Harvard 12. Harvard ran up a 9-6 lead before the half, Penn ran off 6 straight, game tied at 12, Harvard missed a couple chances, Penn got up 14-12, Harvard messed up a clear, got a miracle empty-net save by a defender, failed to capitalize when the Penn goalie dropped the ball on a clear, Penn added a final goal on a long-stick shot from its own 25 yard line.

[aside: Host Dartmouth up on Yale 7-1 in the first period, 10-6 in the second. If it holds: That should trigger an automatic urine test. Okay, 7-4. It doesn't hold: Yale 15-12 and final is 20-13. Brown built up a nice lead on Princeton, Tigers tied it at 12 halfway through the fourth, Brown went up 13-12, goes up 14-12 with a minute left except Brown coach calls a timeout a moment before the shot. (Probably to burn the last 42 seconds off the shot clock. Last second Brown saves gives them a 13-12 win.)]

The save that almost kept Harvard in the game with about a minute left:

[CU77]

That is one of the all-time great saves.

[billhoward]

Princeton getting upset 13-12 by Brown Saturday (4/13) reduces the number of ways Cornell gets the 1-seed in the ILT. The one-loss teams are now Yale, Penn (which gave Cornell its loss) and Cornell, but not Princeton now at 2 losses nor Harvard at 3 losses (but 7-4 overall, suggesting they're tough for Cornell to beat). We can't count on help from Princeton in a multi-way one-loss tie at the top. Right now we win a one-loss H2H finish with Yale-Penn-Cornell or Yale-Cornell but not Penn-Cornell.

4/13 & 4/14 Ivy results:
Penn 15, Harvard 14
Yale 20, Dartmouth 13
Brown 13, Princeton 12

[CU77]

Penn and Yale each have a final Ivy game against Princeton: Penn away on 4/20, Yale home on 4/27.

[upprdeck]

win 1 and just make the final 4.   Then hope for 2 to get the #1 seed

[billhoward]

Looking good for Cornell to win the regular season title, alone or tied with Yale, and as a result host the Ivy League tournament, semifinal games Friday May 3, title game Sunday (no third-place game). Why:

* Cornell and Yale lead the league at 4-1, Cornell holds the tiebreaker to host the ILT, based on H2H (C18-Y15).
* Cornell finishes against the only winless Ivy team, at Dartmouth. Pretty likely win.
* Yale hosts Princeton in its finale, should be a close game. If Yale loses and Cornell wins, Cornell wins the RS title alone.

Code Select Expand

[b]Ivy Standings Heading Into the Final Week
TEAM        W  L  4/27 Game    Ivy Wins over[/b]]
Yale*       4  1  Princeton    Harvard, Brown, Penn, Dartmouth  
Cornell*    4  1  @Dartmouth   Princeton, Yale, Brown, Harvard
Penn*       4  2  ----         Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Harvard  
Princeton** 3  2  @Yale        Harvard, Dartmouth, Penn
Brown**     2  3  @Harvard     Princeton, Dartmouth
Harvard     1  4  Brown
Dartmouth   0  5  Cornell
* clinched playoff spot  |  ** could make playoff


Brown I believe has a shot at the final playoff spot if Brown beats Harvard and Yale beats Princeton, then both finish 3-3 and Brown wins the H2H comparison.

[Edit add confirming Cornell controls its road to the Ivy RS title and 1-seed for the tourament:]

Princeton gets in with a victory next week against Yale or with a Harvard win over Brown. Cornell, winners vs. Harvard, has the inside track to host because of its head-to-head tiebreaker over Yale. If the Big Red beat Dartmouth, they are the Ivy League regular season champions and will host the tournament. [Link (scroll way down past Princeton-Harvard game story): https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/clear-as-ivy-cornell-runs-past-harvard-mike-gianforcaro-paces-princeton-with-saves-goal/63147]

[upprdeck]

whats a 4 way tie look like?

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

whats a 4 way tie look like?

A mess?

We'd have a 2 wins against the top 4 (Princeton, Yale)
Yale would have 1 win against the top 4 (Penn)
Penn would have 1 win against the top 4 (us)
Princeton would have 2 wins against the top 4 (Penn, Yale)

I'm not 100% sure how they'd decide it, but if they eliminate the two 1-win teams, and then compare the H2H of the two 2-win teams, we win that H2H.  But I don't know if that's how they'd break the ties.

[billhoward]

whats a 4 way tie look like?

It looks unlikely in the extreme. As a practical matter, Cornell ain't gonna lose to 0-5 Dartmouth.

But should that happen, I believe Cornell would be the 1-seed. The first tie-breaker is how many wins each team has against the others tied for the same playoff seed. The only four-way would be Cornell-Yale-Penn-Princeton. The four-way would become possible by Princeton beating Yale (could happen), Cornell losing to Dartmouth (this would happen in a Disney kids-sports-movie-world where the coach also says, "You're right, the rules don't say a labrador retriever can't take faceoffs" ), and Penn already with its Ivy season finished.
* Yale: 1 win against the other tied teams, over Penn
* Cornell: 2 wins, over Princeton and Yale
* Penn: 1 win, over Cornell
* Princeton: 2 wins, over Penn and Yale, tieing with Cornell's 2 wins ...
...  but the next tiebreaker step is H2H and Cornell won that future H2 when long pole Matt Dooley chugged upfield and buried a shot at 14:59 of the fourth to break that 14-14 tie in the season opener at Princeton.


the Ivy League says:

Men's Lacrosse Tournament Tiebreakers
[updated per coach group decision prior to 2023 season]

1. In the case of two-way ties between teams in the final standings, the higher seed will be determined on the basis of head-to-head competition.

2.   In the case of a multiple ties (more than two teams with the same record), the following procedure will be used:
The highest seed will go to the team with the best cumulative record against all other teams tied at that spot. (If multiple teams are tied with the same record, the tie between those teams will be broken on the basis of cumulative record against each other)
Once a highest seed(s) (amongst the tied teams) is determined, the initial tie is broken. The tie between the remaining teams will be determined on the basis of cumulative record against all other remaining teams tied at that spot.
This procedure will be repeated until all possible ties are broken. (If there are remaining unbroken ties within the group, the remaining tied teams move on to step 3.)

3.   In the case of a multiple team tie that cannot be broken on the basis of review of cumulative record:
The highest seed will go to the team that has beaten the highest seeded team outside of the tie and continuing through the full league standings (If multiple teams have beaten the highest seeded team outside of the tie, the tie between those teams will be broken on the basis of cumulative record against each other).
Once a highest seed(s) (amongst the tied teams) is determined, the initial tie is broken. The tie between the remaining teams shall be determined on the basis of cumulative record against all other remaining teams tied at that spot.
This procedure will be completed until all possible ties are broken. (If there remaining unbroken ties within the group, the remaining tied teams move on to step 4.)

Continues: https://ivyleague.com/sports/2018/4/17/MLAX_0417180748.aspx#:~:text=1.,head%2Dto%2Dhead%20competition.

I believe that's how it works.

I am intrigued by the possibility of Princeton losing at Yale and Brown beating Harvard. In that case, Harvard and Brown will both finish 3-3 and the H2H tiebreaker goes to the Bruins. Meaning the opening round would be:
Host: Cornell
Games: Cornell vs. Brown
Yale vs. Penn
Based on the 2023 tournament, the top-seed plays the early game. At neutral-site Columbia, they were played at 6 and 8:30 Friday, title game 12 noon Sunday.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Whaddya know.  I guess right!