ECAC Early and Grad Departures 2024

[George64]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

[ugarte]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

No. Two rules stand in the way.

1) Ivies start the clock running on your four years to compete at the same time as your enrollment. The redshirt works outside of the Ivies because the NCAA rule is "you have 5 years for 4 years of competition."

2) Ivies do not permit grad school competition, outside of the one-time-only COVID exemption.

There is a caveat to (1), which is that you can manipulate your enrollment by withdrawing during semesters when your sport is out of competition (or in preliminary competition). Football doesn't play in the Spring, so you can get an extra year of competition by taking off Spring semester of Senior year and graduating the following fall. Wrestling spans the semesters, so if you join the team after Fall finals, you can get an extra year of competition. Wrestling also has what people call a "greyshirt" - take classes at TC3 for a year after graduation while training at the Spartan Combat [Olympic] Regional Training Center. SCRTC has some administrator/coach overlap with the Cornell team and people have been side-eyeing it for a while but it is apparently kosher.

[George64]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

No. Two rules stand in the way.

1) Ivies start the clock running on your four years to compete at the same time as your enrollment. The redshirt works outside of the Ivies because the NCAA rule is "you have 5 years for 4 years of competition."

2) Ivies do not permit grad school competition, outside of the one-time-only COVID exemption.

There is a caveat to (1), which is that you can manipulate your enrollment by withdrawing during semesters when your sport is out of competition (or in preliminary competition). Football doesn't play in the Spring, so you can get an extra year of competition by taking off Spring semester of Senior year and graduating the following fall. Wrestling spans the semesters, so if you join the team after Fall finals, you can get an extra year of competition. Wrestling also has what people call a "greyshirt" - take classes at TC3 for a year after graduation while training at the Spartan Combat [Olympic] Regional Training Center. SCRTC has some administrator/coach overlap with the Cornell team and people have been side-eyeing it for a while but it is apparently kosher.

Thanks, but my question was primarily about non-Ivy athletes.  Let me rephrase to reflect what you told me about the NCAA rule —
 
Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for one year, but not compete, then compete in his final three years, graduate on time, and then use his remaining eligibility to play for one year while working towards his MBA? Essentially, "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete. Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school? Just wondering.

Also, will graduate student eligibility go away for non-Ivies after the last of the Covid cohort passes on?  In which case, my musings will be moot.

[Give My Regards]

There is also something called a "medical redshirt", separate from the traditional redshirt.  If an athlete suffers a season-ending injury before the halfway point of that season, and if they have played in no more than some small fraction of the team's games/meets/whatever (I think it's 25%), then they can get an additional year, even if they've already had the traditional redshirt.  Thus it's possible to spread the 4 years of competition over 6 years.

Ivies don't have the traditional redshirt, but the medical redshirt can be granted.  Years ago, Vinnie Auger missed almost an entire season with the Big Red due to a back injury, but was permitted to play a season beyond what would have been considered his senior year. (And then he promptly got injured again, sigh)

[Give My Regards]

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for one year, but not compete, then compete in his final three years, graduate on time, and then use his remaining eligibility to play for one year while working towards his MBA? Essentially, "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete. Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school? Just wondering.

This can and has happened at non-Ivies, although I can't think of an example off the top of my head.

[Weder]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

No. Two rules stand in the way.

1) Ivies start the clock running on your four years to compete at the same time as your enrollment. The redshirt works outside of the Ivies because the NCAA rule is "you have 5 years for 4 years of competition."

2) Ivies do not permit grad school competition, outside of the one-time-only COVID exemption.

There is a caveat to (1), which is that you can manipulate your enrollment by withdrawing during semesters when your sport is out of competition (or in preliminary competition). Football doesn't play in the Spring, so you can get an extra year of competition by taking off Spring semester of Senior year and graduating the following fall. Wrestling spans the semesters, so if you join the team after Fall finals, you can get an extra year of competition. Wrestling also has what people call a "greyshirt" - take classes at TC3 for a year after graduation while training at the Spartan Combat [Olympic] Regional Training Center. SCRTC has some administrator/coach overlap with the Cornell team and people have been side-eyeing it for a while but it is apparently kosher.

Thanks, but my question was primarily about non-Ivy athletes.  Let me rephrase to reflect what you told me about the NCAA rule —
 
Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for one year, but not compete, then compete in his final three years, graduate on time, and then use his remaining eligibility to play for one year while working towards his MBA? Essentially, "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete. Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school? Just wondering.

Also, will graduate student eligibility go away for non-Ivies after the last of the Covid cohort passes on?  In which case, my musings will be moot.

Yes, for non-Ivy schools you can absolutely do this. And grad school eligibility was available long before covid. You don't even need to be enrolled in a degree program. If you have eligibility remaining and are taking the equivalent of a full courseload, you can compete.

[ugarte]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

No. Two rules stand in the way.

1) Ivies start the clock running on your four years to compete at the same time as your enrollment. The redshirt works outside of the Ivies because the NCAA rule is "you have 5 years for 4 years of competition."

2) Ivies do not permit grad school competition, outside of the one-time-only COVID exemption.

There is a caveat to (1), which is that you can manipulate your enrollment by withdrawing during semesters when your sport is out of competition (or in preliminary competition). Football doesn't play in the Spring, so you can get an extra year of competition by taking off Spring semester of Senior year and graduating the following fall. Wrestling spans the semesters, so if you join the team after Fall finals, you can get an extra year of competition. Wrestling also has what people call a "greyshirt" - take classes at TC3 for a year after graduation while training at the Spartan Combat [Olympic] Regional Training Center. SCRTC has some administrator/coach overlap with the Cornell team and people have been side-eyeing it for a while but it is apparently kosher.

Thanks, but my question was primarily about non-Ivy athletes.  Let me rephrase to reflect what you told me about the NCAA rule —
 
1. Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for one year, but not compete, then compete in his final three years, graduate on time, and then use his remaining eligibility to play for one year while working towards his MBA? Essentially, "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete. Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school? Just wondering.

2. Also, will graduate student eligibility go away for non-Ivies after the last of the Covid cohort passes on?  In which case, my musings will be moot.

1. Yes, I am 90% sure. The scholarships are often renewable annually rather than a four-year guarantee anyway, and they can go towards grad degrees. Though graduation is often when you see people transfer there is no rule against staying and getting another degree from alma mater.
2. No, since it predated COVID.

[ugarte]

There is also something called a "medical redshirt" ... Ivies don't have the traditional redshirt, but the medical redshirt can be granted.  Years ago, Vinnie Auger missed almost an entire season with the Big Red due to a back injury, but was permitted to play a season beyond what would have been considered his senior year. (And then he promptly got injured again, sigh)

Medical redshirts are evaluated by the NCAA on a case-by-case basis, but the rough contours are as GMR described AFAIK. There are other ways to extend, for example, in Olympic sports there are criteria for NCAA qualfiers to receive Olympic redshirts to spend the year training towards Olympic qualification. In wrestling, it was finishing in the top 8 at the US Senior Open, which allowed Yianni D., Vito and Max Dean to take Olympic redshirts in 2020 (before the postseason was canceled.)

[arugula]

Looks like Graf is going to the pros.

[upprdeck]

There is also something called a "medical redshirt", separate from the traditional redshirt.  If an athlete suffers a season-ending injury before the halfway point of that season, and if they have played in no more than some small fraction of the team's games/meets/whatever (I think it's 25%), then they can get an additional year, even if they've already had the traditional redshirt.  Thus it's possible to spread the 4 years of competition over 6 years.

Ivies don't have the traditional redshirt, but the medical redshirt can be granted.  Years ago, Vinnie Auger missed almost an entire season with the Big Red due to a back injury, but was permitted to play a season beyond what would have been considered his senior year. (And then he promptly got injured again, sigh)

This is not true..  If you RS for a non medical reason and then get injured in one of the other 4 yrs you dont get a 6th. You can petition it but its not often granted.

Almost all 6-7-8 yrs require injuries.

[dag14]

There is also something called a "medical redshirt" ... Ivies don't have the traditional redshirt, but the medical redshirt can be granted.  Years ago, Vinnie Auger missed almost an entire season with the Big Red due to a back injury, but was permitted to play a season beyond what would have been considered his senior year. (And then he promptly got injured again, sigh)

Medical redshirts are evaluated by the NCAA on a case-by-case basis, but the rough contours are as GMR described AFAIK. There are other ways to extend, for example, in Olympic sports there are criteria for NCAA qualfiers to receive Olympic redshirts to spend the year training towards Olympic qualification. In wrestling, it was finishing in the top 8 at the US Senior Open, which allowed Yianni D., Vito and Max Dean to take Olympic redshirts in 2020 (before the postseason was canceled.)

The medical redshirt is an NCAA thing -- it is not automatically approved by the Ivy League unless the player has an academic reason to remain in school [or return to school if they took a semester off].  If a player takes a leave of absence to have surgery or to recover from an injury, getting the League to approve is easier than if they remain in school and can clearly graduate on time.

[Trotsky]

Looks like Graf is going to the pros.

Wow; he's a FA and it's a bidding war.  That offer is going to be pretty close to impossible to resist.

If they (Quillan and Graf) both go, I wonder if Lipkin might jump to the Yotes.  A girl can dream.

[David Harding]

My understanding of "red shirting" is that athletes matriculate, practice with their team for a year or two, but not play, but take some classes to ease their academic burden during their following four playing years.  

Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for two years, but not compete, then play in his final two years, graduate on time, and then play for two years while completing his MBA?  Essentially,  "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete.  Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school?  Just wondering.

No. Two rules stand in the way.

1) Ivies start the clock running on your four years to compete at the same time as your enrollment. The redshirt works outside of the Ivies because the NCAA rule is "you have 5 years for 4 years of competition."

2) Ivies do not permit grad school competition, outside of the one-time-only COVID exemption.

There is a caveat to (1), which is that you can manipulate your enrollment by withdrawing during semesters when your sport is out of competition (or in preliminary competition). Football doesn't play in the Spring, so you can get an extra year of competition by taking off Spring semester of Senior year and graduating the following fall. Wrestling spans the semesters, so if you join the team after Fall finals, you can get an extra year of competition. Wrestling also has what people call a "greyshirt" - take classes at TC3 for a year after graduation while training at the Spartan Combat [Olympic] Regional Training Center. SCRTC has some administrator/coach overlap with the Cornell team and people have been side-eyeing it for a while but it is apparently kosher.

Thanks, but my question was primarily about non-Ivy athletes.  Let me rephrase to reflect what you told me about the NCAA rule —
 
1. Hypothetically, could a non-Ivy athlete practice with his team for one year, but not compete, then compete in his final three years, graduate on time, and then use his remaining eligibility to play for one year while working towards his MBA? Essentially, "red shirting" for the academically competent athlete. Would athletic "scholarships" carry over to grad school? Just wondering.

2. Also, will graduate student eligibility go away for non-Ivies after the last of the Covid cohort passes on?  In which case, my musings will be moot.

1. Yes, I am 90% sure. The scholarships are often renewable annually rather than a four-year guarantee anyway, and they can go towards grad degrees. Though graduation is often when you see people transfer there is no rule against staying and getting another degree from alma mater.
2. No, since it predated COVID.

Twenty or so years ago one of my daughter's high school friends who played football at a Big-10 school red-shirted his freshman year, graduated in four, and stayed on scholarship for a year working on an MBA.  The chance to earn an advanced degree on scholarship was sufficiently attractive to lure away from Princeton, which was actively recruiting him.

[upprdeck]

If they IVY is all about the degree you would think letting Grad students play would be a student first thing.  Its really counter to what they stand for that kids would skip semesters can come back and play but kids who graduate can't.

[ugarte]

If they IVY is all about the degree you would think letting Grad students play would be a student first thing.  Its really counter to what they stand for that kids would skip semesters can come back and play but kids who graduate can't.

I think they probably have a pretty clear vision of the kind of graduate work that is required of 5th year athletes outside of the Ivies.