Corona Virus And Playoff Games

[scoop85]

Lots of discussion about $6 refunds on $20 (or close to it) tickets. But let's look at the big numbers / big issues as they apply not only to Cornell but to all the schools that are canceling "in-person" classes and sending the students home. Will the schools be issuing partial tuition refunds? The students did not pay for "distance learning." It doesn't seem at all fair to charge as much for that type of education as for what the student expected when the tuition was paid. What about housing? Are the schools going to issue partial refunds on housing, meal plans, etc.

There is some serious money at stake here.

I figure they have to give partial refunds on housing. As to tuition itself, they're probably safe but who knows.

I'm assuming most affected organizations have business interruption insurance like what kicked in after Katrina. But I wonder if this will sink the insurance companies with everyone filling claims everywhere all at once.

My agent said our business interruption insurance won't cover us for this type of situation. I need to review our policy carefullly.

[Jim Hyla]

Another cancellation, Friday's Coach's Club Luncheon. The reason, CU won't allow a luncheon of more than 100 people, which usually happens.

So rather than limit it to the first 98, they cancel it?

[Tcl123]

Lots of discussion about $6 refunds on $20 (or close to it) tickets. But let's look at the big numbers / big issues as they apply not only to Cornell but to all the schools that are canceling "in-person" classes and sending the students home. Will the schools be issuing partial tuition refunds? The students did not pay for "distance learning." It doesn't seem at all fair to charge as much for that type of education as for what the student expected when the tuition was paid. What about housing? Are the schools going to issue partial refunds on housing, meal plans, etc.

There is some serious money at stake here.

I figure they have to give partial refunds on housing. As to tuition itself, they're probably safe but who knows.

I'm assuming most affected organizations have business interruption insurance like what kicked in after Katrina. But I wonder if this will sink the insurance companies with everyone filling claims everywhere all at once.

My agent said our business interruption insurance won't cover us for this type of situation. I need to review our policy carefullly.

I've read most insurance companies won't cover pandemics. You need to buy that separately. Not too shocking to me after years of dealing with them as a business owner.

[nshapiro]

So can Kaldis still set the games played record?

[cufan]

Ever since the Coach induced flop in the 73 Semi's I have been waiting for an opportunity to cheer the Red on In Person at the Frozen Four.
This was to be the year.  fly to Detroit city, sit in the Arena ON THE GODAMN GLASS NO LESS, and whoop it up.
But NOOOO
Do not Fly up from south Florida, do not enter the arena, and hope like hell that the NCAA refunds my money in a timely fashion.

SIGH
TWS, ILR '74

[Swampy]

The pep band has been told they are done for the year FWIW.

Someone asked if it's any more dangerous for the players to play a game vs going to the supermarket and so far everyone responding to that agreed it's the same risk.   But that's nonsense. You get the virus via eyes, nose, or mouth and it's transmitted in mucus though not sweat, right?

So what's higher risk-waiting in line at the grocery store or grinding for the puck on the boards with one or more opponents in the middle of the third period? It's got to be that the game is much higher risk and with those close quarters like that.

Though if I were a player that used a wire cage, I'd be swapping for the clear shield asap since itd block far more flying bits of stuff.

Also, arguably the risk isn't in playing a game.  Isn't there way more close contact and equipment sharing in the locker room or weight room every day during practices than you'd get in a game?   Just look how common it is for teams to have a bunch of people go down with the flu once one guy gets it.

Your analogy is faulty. If they could ban going to the grocery store too, they would.

And the issue is not primarily the risk to the players. Instead, it's the risk they transmit it to others outside the team. Of course, in a contact sport, with both teammates and opponents, the transmission probability is higher than that of grocery shopping, except perhaps for  cucumbers

Besides limiting the overall number of cases, it's important to slow the rate at which the disease is transmitted. This is because our medical system can't handle its current case load PLUS the additional load from the pandemic unless the latter is slowed. Part of Italy's problem is its geographic lack of capacity relative to need.

[redice]

Ever since the Coach induced flop in the 73 Semi's I have been waiting for an opportunity to cheer the Red on In Person at the Frozen Four.
This was to be the year.  fly to Detroit city, sit in the Arena ON THE GODAMN GLASS NO LESS, and whoop it up.
But NOOOO
Do not Fly up from south Florida, do not enter the arena, and hope like hell that the NCAA refunds my money in a timely fashion.

SIGH
TWS, ILR '74

That's the next question:  How much of our money does the greedy NC$$ refund?   I'm betting that it won't be 100% of what I sent to them!!::asshole::

[Give My Regards]

So can Kaldis still set the games played record?

Assuming nothing else gets cancelled, the Big Red has a maximum of 6 games left (2 LP, 4 NCAA).  So yes.

[abmarks]

The pep band has been told they are done for the year FWIW.

Someone asked if it's any more dangerous for the players to play a game vs going to the supermarket and so far everyone responding to that agreed it's the same risk.   But that's nonsense. You get the virus via eyes, nose, or mouth and it's transmitted in mucus though not sweat, right?

So what's higher risk-waiting in line at the grocery store or grinding for the puck on the boards with one or more opponents in the middle of the third period? It's got to be that the game is much higher risk and with those close quarters like that.

Though if I were a player that used a wire cage, I'd be swapping for the clear shield asap since itd block far more flying bits of stuff.

Also, arguably the risk isn't in playing a game.  Isn't there way more close contact and equipment sharing in the locker room or weight room every day during practices than you'd get in a game?   Just look how common it is for teams to have a bunch of people go down with the flu once one guy gets it.

Your analogy is faulty. If they could ban going to the grocery store too, they would.

And the issue is not primarily the risk to the players. Instead, it's the risk they transmit it to others outside the team. Of course, in a contact sport, with both teammates and opponents, the transmission probability is higher than that of grocery shopping, except perhaps for  cucumbers

Besides limiting the overall number of cases, it's important to slow the rate at which the disease is transmitted. This is because our medical system can't handle its current case load PLUS the additional load from the pandemic unless the latter is slowed. Part of Italy's problem is its geographic lack of capacity relative to need.

Swampy- pretty sure my post supports your argument in the first place.

It's not my analogy.  I was responding to others and pointing out that, regardless of the grocery store risk level, playing a game is worse, and not just because of the single game, but because the leadup to the game requires all those practice sessions.

You're correct that transmission is the real issue. But the argument is the same whether you're talking about risk of players being exposed to the virus or the players becoming transmitters.  

Playing the games at all will make the players more likely to be both patients and transmitters.

[Trotsky]

Playing the games at all will make the players more likely to be both patients and transmitters.

Hey!  Ixne on the actsfe.

[osorojo]

It appears that controlling your environment: the people you encounter, the duration of your encounter, and the distance of your encounter - are the critical factors in transmission of the coronavirus. These are factors for which statisticians can provide credible and useful information for hockey playoff schedulers (?!!) and hockey fans.

[abmarks]

The pep band has been told they are done for the year FWIW.

Someone asked if it's any more dangerous for the players to play a game vs going to the supermarket and so far everyone responding to that agreed it's the same risk.   But that's nonsense. You get the virus via eyes, nose, or mouth and it's transmitted in mucus though not sweat, right?

So what's higher risk-waiting in line at the grocery store or grinding for the puck on the boards with one or more opponents in the middle of the third period? It's got to be that the game is much higher risk and with those close quarters like that.

Though if I were a player that used a wire cage, I'd be swapping for the clear shield asap since itd block far more flying bits of stuff.

Also, arguably the risk isn't in playing a game.  Isn't there way more close contact and equipment sharing in the locker room or weight room every day during practices than you'd get in a game?   Just look how common it is for teams to have a bunch of people go down with the flu once one guy gets it.

Your analogy is faulty. If they could ban going to the grocery store too, they would.

And the issue is not primarily the risk to the players. Instead, it's the risk they transmit it to others outside the team. Of course, in a contact sport, with both teammates and opponents, the transmission probability is higher than that of grocery shopping, except perhaps for  cucumbers

Besides limiting the overall number of cases, it's important to slow the rate at which the disease is transmitted. This is because our medical system can't handle its current case load PLUS the additional load from the pandemic unless the latter is slowed. Part of Italy's problem is its geographic lack of capacity relative to need.

Swampy- pretty sure my post supports your argument in the first place.

It's not my analogy.  I was responding to others and pointing out that, regardless of the grocery store risk level, playing a game is worse, and not just because of the single game, but because the leadup to the game requires all those practice sessions.

You're correct that transmission is the real issue. But the argument is the same whether you're talking about risk of players being exposed to the virus or the players becoming transmitters.  

Playing the games at all will make the players more likely to be both patients and transmitters.

Doh. I found the disconnect between me and Swampy.  When I read a previous post somewhere way back in these discussions I took the question about  "playing a game and going to the grocery store" in a different way.

Pretty sure Swampy, if not most on here would have looked through the lens of the fans... and arguing the relative dangers of grocery shopping and in person game attendance.

 I read "playing a game and going to the grocery store" as referring to the risks to the players of playing vs. risk to the players from their regular grocery shooping.

As I understand it, one of the reasons to cancel spring sports like lax was that you'd be having all those  practices every day which gather all the players together as well as require coaches and support staff to come in close contact.  And by extension, if we're practicing then obviously the student athletes are still concentrated on or near campus at a time when the universities are trying to empty campuses by sending students home.

So I was thinking about the risks specifically to players that might result from continuing their seasons, vs. the risk those players face from going to the grocery store (which they'd be doing regularly whether they are playing hockey or not.)

[Trotsky]

It appears that controlling your environment: the people you encounter, the duration of your encounter, and the distance of your encounter - are the critical factors in transmission of the coronavirus. These are factors for which statisticians can provide credible and useful information for hockey playoff schedulers (?!!) and hockey fans.

Real men use the eyeball test for epidemiology.

[snert1288]

https://twitter.com/chnews/status/1238143075538567172

[abmarks]

It appears that controlling your environment: the people you encounter, the duration of your encounter, and the distance of your encounter - are the critical factors in transmission of the coronavirus. These are factors for which statisticians can provide credible and useful information for hockey playoff schedulers (?!!) and hockey fans.

Pretty sure that epidemiologists and CDC etc are doing just that to the extent that we know things.  But since it's a new virus, what we don't know yet dwarfs what we do know since, especially in the states, we are woefully behind in getting people tested.

Playing the games at all will make the players more likely to be both patients and transmitters.

Hey!  Ixne on the actsfe.

Normally I would lol.  But the last 48 hours have been a head-turner.  The frozen four is 30 days out and with how wide this likely spreads in that time, I'm starting to bet against it getting played. Once one D1 bball player tests positive, or for sure if a D1 hockey player tests positive, my money is on the remainder of any tournaments being cancelled.

Look at it this way.  Come to terms now with the tourneys getting a washout, and if by some miracle the NC game gets played, just think how much more exciting it'll be then the other way 'round.    (To polish that turd if at all possible).