Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust

[upprdeck]

The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open.  The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons.  After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday.  I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

were you that upset about them enforcing a rule.  Did you go complain when a grocery store wouldnt let you buy beer?  or when the DMV made you wait until your birthday to get your permit?

[Iceberg]

I can't recall all the details about bars and door people but ~10 years ago, Level B was always the place that people who were underaged would avoid from what I personally saw and heard. Dunbar's was in the middle I would say with a certain other place that no longer exists being perhaps the most lenient.

[Trotsky]

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass.  One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.

She's a minister now, LOL.

[ugarte]

The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open.  The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons.  After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday.  I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

[Trotsky]

When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

McLovin is 42.

[jtwcornell91]

The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open.  The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons.  After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.

[jtwcornell91]

There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

Oh, definitely.  But those places are in poor neighborhoods, not well-scrubbed collegetowns.  And they're real, they're not Slumming Adventureland.  So they aren't dive bars, they're real bars with real people. Albany has a dozen of them, and no college student -- possibly no college graduate -- has ever been in one.  The people there are not there because Let's Go To A Dive Bar (giggle).  They're there because late stage capitalism is soul destroying and getting drunk is cheaper than a streaming service.

We had one of those about a block from my apartment in New Orleans, but I was always to chicken to go in.  But now they have a website, so they're probably not a real dive bar either: https://snakeandjakes.com/

[billhoward]

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass.  One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.
She's a minister now, LOL.

a) When NJ Wall Streeter Jon Corzine ran for governor, he was asked what he thought about the drinking age being raised to 21? Corzine said: It was? then recovered and thoughtfully said, Well, if you can get your ass shot off in Afghanistan Iraq Vietnam you name, you ought to be able to have a drink. ... this commonsense comment get him in hot water and a day later he said he had been miscontrued, which he had not.
b) Historically, good looking women got an age allowance on admission, and big city bars with velvet ropes and bouncers would let good women pass the line ahead of others, sometimes also raising the F/M ratio to 55/45 or so, making men more desirous of getting in.
c) which church is this? are they looking for members?

[billhoward]

For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920

1933: 2118, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment). [edit add: Wiki pegs the end of prohibition as resuming the NYS 18-year drinking age.]
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

[75er]

Drinking age was actually lowered to 18 in 1971. Had my first legal beer at Noyes Center in October 71

[marty]

For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong.  I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18.  Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.

[ursusminor]

For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong.  I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18.  Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.

It was already 18 when I was a freshman in 1964.

[upprdeck]

ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

[marty]

ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

[upprdeck]

ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

my experience it was more like 16 until the 80s