Chapter House fire last night/this morning

[Rosey]

Well, crap.

Future Of New Chapter House In Doubt

Generally, absentee landlords are nothing but festering carbuncles on the body politic.

One wishes a cooperative of Cornellians and other interested locals could get together and remove such an important property from the clutches of these management companies upon management companies.

It seems like there ought to be some sort of posthumous landmark status that forbids the owners from building anything except a new Chapter House on that site.

Because it's well-established that the best way to get property owners to keep their properties from becoming blighted is to cap rents by limiting use. Just ask this scientician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB-JO2j7MEQ

Oh, Kyle.  Never change.

You mean starting now?

[David Harding]

Off again,on again.  It sounds as though replacement of the building that housed the Chapter House is on again.  There is some reading between the lines here, but the indications are that construction on something that looks looks like the old building will start soon.  That new building may or may not house an establishment known as The Chapter House.

[Scersk '97]

Off again,on again.  It sounds as though replacement of the building that housed the Chapter House is on again.  There is some reading between the lines here, but the indications are that construction on something that looks looks like the old building will start soon.  That new building may or may not house an establishment known as The Chapter House.

I will cry with joy if the "possible layout" on the Pyramid brokerage flyer comes to pass. I want to be able to sit by the windows watching people struggle up and down Williams on a snowy evening again.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a "reconstruction" would be the most lucrative use for that space. Let's hope things keep moving that way.

[David Harding]

Off again,on again.  It sounds as though replacement of the building that housed the Chapter House is on again.  There is some reading between the lines here, but the indications are that construction on something that looks looks like the old building will start soon.  That new building may or may not house an establishment known as The Chapter House.

I will cry with joy if the "possible layout" on the Pyramid brokerage flyer comes to pass. I want to be able to sit by the windows watching people struggle up and down Williams on a snowy evening again.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a "reconstruction" would be the most lucrative use for that space. Let's hope things keep moving that way.

A little more movement.  Nick Reynolds at Ithaca.com reports on the reconstruction approvals.  The building has cleared its biggest regulatory hurdle, the Ithaca Landmark Preservation Commission, but the owner is asking twice as much rent for the restaurant/bar space as the Chapter House trademark holder was paying.  He calls it "a money pit spending more and more before construction with no anchor tenant."

[David Harding]

Off again,on again.  It sounds as though replacement of the building that housed the Chapter House is on again.  There is some reading between the lines here, but the indications are that construction on something that looks looks like the old building will start soon.  That new building may or may not house an establishment known as The Chapter House.

I will cry with joy if the "possible layout" on the Pyramid brokerage flyer comes to pass. I want to be able to sit by the windows watching people struggle up and down Williams on a snowy evening again.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a "reconstruction" would be the most lucrative use for that space. Let's hope things keep moving that way.

A little more movement.  Nick Reynolds at Ithaca.com reports on the reconstruction approvals.  The building has cleared its biggest regulatory hurdle, the Ithaca Landmark Preservation Commission, but the owner is asking twice as much rent for the restaurant/bar space as the Chapter House trademark holder was paying.  He calls it "a money pit spending more and more before construction with no anchor tenant."

Back in Ithaca for reunions over the weekend I noticed there seemed to be construction activity on the property.  Mark Anbinder at 14850.com and Brian Crandell at The Ithaca Voice now report that is indeed the case, though a tenant for the planned first floor retail/restaurant space (formerly the Chapter House) has not been announced.

[David Harding]

Off again,on again.  It sounds as though replacement of the building that housed the Chapter House is on again.  There is some reading between the lines here, but the indications are that construction on something that looks looks like the old building will start soon.  That new building may or may not house an establishment known as The Chapter House.

I will cry with joy if the "possible layout" on the Pyramid brokerage flyer comes to pass. I want to be able to sit by the windows watching people struggle up and down Williams on a snowy evening again.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a "reconstruction" would be the most lucrative use for that space. Let's hope things keep moving that way.

A little more movement.  Nick Reynolds at Ithaca.com reports on the reconstruction approvals.  The building has cleared its biggest regulatory hurdle, the Ithaca Landmark Preservation Commission, but the owner is asking twice as much rent for the restaurant/bar space as the Chapter House trademark holder was paying.  He calls it "a money pit spending more and more before construction with no anchor tenant."

Back in Ithaca for reunions over the weekend I noticed there seemed to be construction activity on the property.  Mark Anbinder at 14850.com and Brian Crandell at The Ithaca Voice now report that is indeed the case, though a tenant for the planned first floor retail/restaurant space (formerly the Chapter House) has not been announced.

Brian Crandall reports on construction progress at the Chapter House site and elicits from  John Hoey, the proprietor of the Chapter House, the statement that he intends to bring back the Chapter House either at that location or in one of the other empty Collegetown bar sites.

[David Harding]

Brian Crandall reports good progress the building being erected where the Chapter House stood.  From his photos, I would guess that most alumni won't realize that it's a new building.  But I still haven't seen anything definitive about what will occupy the restaurant/bar space on the ground floor.

[David Harding]

Brian Crandall reports good progress the building being erected where the Chapter House stood.  From his photos, I would guess that most alumni won't realize that it's a new building.  But I still haven't seen anything definitive about what will occupy the restaurant/bar space on the ground floor.

Monthly update from Brian Crandall
The owners are looking for a tenant for 3000 sqft at $35/sqft gross.

[ugarte]

every time this gets updated for a second i think "ANOTHER FIRE?"

[Scersk '97]

The owners are looking for a tenantfor 3000 sqft at $35/sqft gross.

Out of curiosity and some concern considering the comment at the bottom of Crandall's summary, can anyone speculate as to what the Chapter House's lease might have been before the fire? Or, for that matter, what a fair rate would be for the property, since no one seems to be biting at Pyramid's ask? As I have absolutely no experience in commercial properties, I'm wondering what spread is being "negotiated" here.

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I'd gladly kick in an extra 50 cents a beer to get the right business back in the right place...

[Tom Lento]

The owners are looking for a tenantfor 3000 sqft at $35/sqft gross.

Out of curiosity and some concern considering the comment at the bottom of Crandall's summary, can anyone speculate as to what the Chapter House's lease might have been before the fire? Or, for that matter, what a fair rate would be for the property, since no one seems to be biting at Pyramid's ask? As I have absolutely no experience in commercial properties, I'm wondering what spread is being "negotiated" here.

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I'd gladly kick in an extra 50 cents a beer to get the right business back in the right place...

No idea, but doing some quick calculations they'd need to sell about 150 beers a night, every night, at a markup of $2 each just to cover gross rent. I don't know what a good draft goes for in Ithaca these days, but if it's $5 that's bound to be a really thin margin over expenses, if it even covers at all. I suspect they'd need double or triple the 150/night volume at those prices, and that strikes me as a lot for a collegetown beer hall. Maybe they've poured a thousand beers on a busy Friday in February when the weather wasn't bad and nothing else was going on, but there are a lot of dead nights in the summer to weigh those averages down.

Of course, more $ per beer means less volume required, but it also means less volume. In a college town bar catering primarily to broke graduate students my guess is the volume drop-off by price is pretty steep.

[Scersk '97]

No idea, but doing some quick calculations they'd need to sell about 150 beers a night, every night, at a markup of $2 each just to cover gross rent. I don't know what a good draft goes for in Ithaca these days, but if it's $5 that's bound to be a really thin margin over expenses, if it even covers at all. I suspect they'd need double or triple the 150/night volume at those prices, and that strikes me as a lot for a collegetown beer hall. Maybe they've poured a thousand beers on a busy Friday in February when the weather wasn't bad and nothing else was going on, but there are a lot of dead nights in the summer to weigh those averages down.

Of course, more $ per beer means less volume required, but it also means less volume. In a college town bar catering primarily to broke graduate students my guess is the volume drop-off by price is pretty steep.

Thanks for responding to my laziness with reason and a bit of math. Your back-of-the-envelope calculation seems about right to me, and I concur that the volume necessary seems unrealistic. And we're not even talking yet about taking care of employees, insurance, utilities, popcorn supplies, bathroom re-grouting, etc.

My mind immediately headed on to the other kind of business that I think Pyramid is chasing, which would be a restaurant, I would guess. The markups would be significantly higher, but the labor costs and overhead would be too. I have no idea what the average mid-price restaurant clears per cover, but let's say it's $5. So, you'd need to do 50 covers per night every night, in that location? Also seems unrealistic. And anyway, does Ithaca need another restaurant, particularly there?

Let's hope that Pyramid is open to significant negotiation.

[upprdeck]

isnt the profit on beer pretty high?  i know the cost of soda to a macd is less then 10 a cup and i thought beer was pretty close to the same for draft

[Tom Lento]

isnt the profit on beer pretty high?  i know the cost of soda to a macd is less then 10 a cup and i thought beer was pretty close to the same for draft

I expect it is, but given the fixed costs of the business gross receipts matter a lot. If you put a bar in there at those lease terms and turn 100% profit over beer, equipment, and maintenance cost on every $5 draft (which implies you get all that stuff for free) AND you have minimal staffing expense, you still go broke within the first year if you aren't selling 50-100 a night. Honestly, if you open in April you'll probably be out of business in August.

[David Harding]

Brian Crandall (The Village Voice) and Mark Anbinder (14850.com) report progress on construction of the buildings that are replacing burned Chapter House and adjacent apartments.  The apartments appear to be on track for August occupancy.  There is still no tenant for the bar/restaurant space.