Lake Placid Attendance

[Rosey]

I was joking, too.  The only reason it even came to mind was because you had to return to your lake house - if you'd said "dumpy apartment in Albany" instead...

Point taken. :-)  Though the house is basically a pumpkin during the winter, because of how remote it is and how cold it is up there. I think I've spent a grand total of 5 winter days up there over the last 5 years. Brrrr. Lake houses are a lot more interesting when the lake is usable. (Somewhat paradoxically, Lake George doesn't typically freeze that far north, even in a winter as cold as this one, so I can't even drive on it or ice skate: I think this has to do with water movement, as Lake George is basically a really slow-moving river, and as it narrows to the north, it flows fast enough to keep ice from forming.)

[Robb]

I was joking, too.  The only reason it even came to mind was because you had to return to your lake house - if you'd said "dumpy apartment in Albany" instead...

Point taken. :-)  Though the house is basically a pumpkin during the winter, because of how remote it is and how cold it is up there. I think I've spent a grand total of 5 winter days up there over the last 5 years. Brrrr. Lake houses are a lot more interesting when the lake is usable. (Somewhat paradoxically, Lake George doesn't typically freeze that far north, even in a winter as cold as this one, so I can't even drive on it or ice skate: I think this has to do with water movement, as Lake George is basically a really slow-moving river, and as it narrows to the north, it flows fast enough to keep ice from forming.)

Even fuller disclosure - my family has a non-winterized house on Owasco Lake, too.

[jtwcornell91]

the other cities anyway near the geographic center of the conference (Syracuse, Worcester, Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford) are even worse shit holes.

I presume you've left out Rochester because it's outside the geographic footprint of the conference, and not because it's not a shit hole.  (Although it does have a Dinosaur Bar-B-Que about a block from the rink.)

[Trotsky]

the other cities anyway near the geographic center of the conference (Syracuse, Worcester, Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford) are even worse shit holes.

I presume you've left out Rochester because it's outside the geographic footprint of the conference, and not because it's not a shit hole.  (Although it does have a Dinosaur Bar-B-Que about a block from the rink.)

I've never been there; I've heard it's a great city.  It is outside the league footprint unless we finally grab RIT.

[Give My Regards]

the other cities anyway near the geographic center of the conference (Syracuse, Worcester, Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford) are even worse shit holes.

I presume you've left out Rochester because it's outside the geographic footprint of the conference, and not because it's not a shit hole.  (Although it does have a Dinosaur Bar-B-Que about a block from the rink.)

There's currently a bit of a conflict, as Atlantic Hockey has been holding their semis and finals at Blue Cross Arena pretty much since RIT joined the league (2007, I think).

[Al DeFlorio]

Providence is a terrific city and is inside the ECACH "footprint."

[Tom Lento]

I think shagwell ("Yeah, baby... yeah!!" ) may be attempting to recreate the glory years, such as they were, of post-HE ECAC tournament attendance, but I suspect he'll find that Placid had the best numbers despite its location, not because of it. Making it as easy as possible for the fans to justify a weekend spent watching hockey is going to put the most asses in seats as is possible, all other things being equal.

Just to riff on this a little, based on the quotes I've seen in articles about this I get the feeling that the league office is trying to capture the sense that this is a weekend event worth attending for the atmosphere, because just the hockey wasn't getting enough fans to the gate towards the end even in Albany. I don't think it'll work, I just think that might be what they're going for here.

Back in the mid 90s you could make the case that Placid's location helped attendance because Clarkson, SLU, and UVM were three of the top teams in the league. However, without UVM (and Martin St. Louis) in the ECAC there's pretty much no way you can justify Lake Placid over Albany using reasonable multi-year attendance projections, because the only fan bases that might find LP convenient are the ones actually living in the North Country. Do you want to bet your gate on getting 2 of Clarkson, SLU, and Cornell to the league championship weekend? At least in Albany you only really need Cornell to get a decent gate.

And that's the real problem - even in Albany, you still need Cornell to get there to get fans to show up. I suspect the key to consistently good attendance numbers is to attract the casual alum, and the only way you get the casual alumni fans to show up for an ECAC weekend is to host it in a convenient location in a city where a decent number of them actually live. Going to the far opposite extreme of Lake Placid is not going to help, but it may well be that Albany is not so far from LP on the attendance spectrum because the activation energy for the average casual fan is just too high.

(edit - of course, since Albany should have a fair number of casual fans from RPI/Union, and they didn't show up, well, maybe the league is just doomed to low attendance)

[ugarte]

got to admit i really liked going to boston.

[andyw2100]

I'm one of the people who was actually pretty happy when I heard the championship weekend was moving back to Lake Placid. I had gone in '96 and '97 and thought I'd be just as likely to follow the team to lake Placid as I had been to follow them to Albany. I made it to Albany all six years we played there. (Living in Ithaca, it wasn't very tough to do.) Yet the reality of the situation is that I'm sitting here less than 48 hours before the semi-final game annoyed that I'm not making the trip to Lake Placid. A number of factors came into play, and I applaud those of you who are making the trip. It's definitely not easy. My frustration is due in large part to the knowledge that were the game in Albany, I would have found a way to make it work, but Lake Placid proved just a bit too difficult. So while I think Lake Placid is a great place, and the history of the Olympic rink is very special, I guess I would have to say I'm now in the camp that would like to see the championship weekend back in Albany.

[redice]

Boston Was & is my favorite ECAC tournament site.    But, I understand the reality that the Conference has fewer Boston-area schools these days and attendance will never be what it was back in the 60's & 70's.   While Boston is a bit of a longer drive (than LP), it has so much more to offer when one get there.    But.......

Given the reality that Boston is now out of the picture, I do believe it should settle back into Albany.   The travel element is just so overwhelmingly easier for most of the league's fans.   We actually attended the tournament in years that Cornell did not go.   A bit of a bummer.   But, still a fun thing to do on a March weekend and a less-than 3 hour easy drive.    We have never done that at any other site.   Are you listening ECAC?

What does the ECAC need to do?   Stop bouncing this tournament around to different sites!   I'm sure they're getting nice incentives from each site to move there.   Whoopee!!   Stop bouncing around & looking foolish.   Focus on the best/logical site (Albany) and MAKE IT WORK!!  

It seemed to me that, each year, the festivous atmosphere surrounding the tournament in Albany shrunk.   What the hell is that?   It almost appeared that the committment to Albany had disappeared, so "let's get this over with!"

[marty]

It seemed to me that, each year, the festivous atmosphere surrounding the tournament in Albany shrunk.   What the hell is that?   It almost appeared that the committment to Albany had disappeared, so "let's get this over with!"

I think that the blizzard in 2007 really hurt the street vendors to the point that many gave up on this tournament.  It is funny that I would have guessed the blizzard was in 2008 or 2009 but a quick search showed storm information for 2007.  My long standing (suffering) hockey partner, my wife Janice, opted out of the Saturday games as we almost didn't make it home on Friday.

[upprdeck]

I think once boston left the equation none of the others really has any draw for people outside of watching their team play. i knew a bunch of people who got the "better half" to go to boston but while they may go to LP once it wont happen every year.  I think they should go back to albany and do LP like every 4th year.

[Trotsky]

If they hold on one spot the thing will put down roots.  People will have their favorite bar, restaurant, hotel.  The memories of prior years will help push people on the fence into going in subsequent years.  The upperclassmen will be able to show the underclassmen around.

That was already happening with Albany.  The first year was a headache -- nobody knew where to stay, parking for the games was a clusterfuck, there were no common landmarks to draw people together so the crowd was atomized.  Within a few years the logistics were solved, and by the end of the time there was actually something resembling a tradition being built.

I love LP, but I hope this is its last hurrah.  My first preference would be to try to make NYC work.  The Ivies alone probably have 100k alumni in the city, there are an infinite number of attractions, it is not badly situated, and there is mass transit from everywhere to drag busloads of the little numbnuts in for a weekend of debauchery.  If that's just too scary for the league (spoiler: it is) then sign a 99-year agreement with Albany and end the churn.

[ugarte]

My first preference would be to try to make NYC work.  The Ivies alone probably have 100k alumni in the city, there are an infinite number of attractions, it is not badly situated, and there is mass transit from everywhere to drag busloads of the little numbnuts in for a weekend of debauchery.  If that's just too scary for the league (spoiler: it is) then sign a 99-year agreement with Albany and end the churn.

OBVIOUSLY this appeals to me. Might be some serious hotel sticker shock though.

[Trotsky]

My first preference would be to try to make NYC work.  The Ivies alone probably have 100k alumni in the city, there are an infinite number of attractions, it is not badly situated, and there is mass transit from everywhere to drag busloads of the little numbnuts in for a weekend of debauchery.  If that's just too scary for the league (spoiler: it is) then sign a 99-year agreement with Albany and end the churn.

OBVIOUSLY this appeals to me. Might be some serious hotel sticker shock though.

People would have to readjust their expectations (and willingness to pay) from a hockey tournament to a weekend in NYC with hockey fan friends.  I don't particularly like NYC, but the place sells itself when it comes to great things to do.  The absence of the consy would open up the whole Saturday for adventuring, and I can't even imagine what 15k bar-hopping fans would be like (I actually can't imagine it -- I assume when dropped into the soup of NYC nightlife they wouldn't even register.)

If shaped and led by a very strong effort by the NYC alumni associations of the members, it could be a Destination Event, something it has not been since it left Boston.  I suspect HYP and Cornell could lay out a great spread using decimal dust from their budgets, and there are probably alumni orgs for every other ECAC member in NYC.