Lake Placid Attendance

[ugarte]

I don't particularly like NYC, but the place sells itself when it comes to great things to do.  The absence of the consy would open up the whole Saturday for adventuring, and I can't even imagine what 15k bar-hopping fans would be like (I actually can't imagine it -- I assume when dropped into the soup of NYC nightlife they wouldn't even register.)

Come on, you can admit it. You like NYC.

This will be good for you. Look at a mirror and say "I like a thing." You'll actually find it liberating.

[CAS]

The tournament should be where most of the fans are - the greater NY area.  The attendance for the MSG games with Cornell, and Harvard-Yale, were several times the recent ECAC semi/finals numbers. How bout MSG, Barclays, Izod, or Nassau Colliseum?

[Dutchman]

One way to get around the housing shortage in LP is to rent a house. This way a big group of students can stay together, have all the convenience of a frat house and party afterwards. Many are very close to the rink. All the hotels are booked and were going at about $400/night. The ECAC staff apparently booked 1/2 of the Marriott. Union is the closest school and there are several buses but I wonder if they are more local fans. This week is exam week at Union ending friday so you will probably have more Union students in Cancun than LP.

[Trotsky]

I don't particularly like NYC, but the place sells itself when it comes to great things to do.  The absence of the consy would open up the whole Saturday for adventuring, and I can't even imagine what 15k bar-hopping fans would be like (I actually can't imagine it -- I assume when dropped into the soup of NYC nightlife they wouldn't even register.)

Come on, you can admit it. You like NYC.

This will be good for you. Look at a mirror and say "I like a thing." You'll actually find it liberating.

I like pie.

I'll just think of NYC as a gigantic pie made of whining, entitled, hyper-aggressive dbags, that smells like urine...

By God, it worked!!!

[adamw]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

[adamw]

I love LP, but I hope this is its last hurrah.  My first preference would be to try to make NYC work.  The Ivies alone probably have 100k alumni in the city, there are an infinite number of attractions, it is not badly situated, and there is mass transit from everywhere to drag busloads of the little numbnuts in for a weekend of debauchery.  If that's just too scary for the league (spoiler: it is) then sign a 99-year agreement with Albany and end the churn.

It's not that it's scary - they've looked into it - some wanted it real bad. But it's not feasible - from the standpoint of scheduling, money, TV - anything. Just won't happen.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

I'll vote for NYC.

But seriously, how many times do we need to have this discussion?

[Rosey]

My first preference would be to try to make NYC work.  The Ivies alone probably have 100k alumni in the city, there are an infinite number of attractions, it is not badly situated, and there is mass transit from everywhere to drag busloads of the little numbnuts in for a weekend of debauchery.  If that's just too scary for the league (spoiler: it is) then sign a 99-year agreement with Albany and end the churn.

OBVIOUSLY this appeals to me. Might be some serious hotel sticker shock though.

I call BS. For a three week period around the Superbowl, I checked Hotels Tonight daily, and was always able to find a 3-star hotel in Midtown for under $110. That includes Superbowl weekend. People just need to know where to look.

[Jim Hyla]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

[marty]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

So all the other ADs voted against Andy?

[Chris '03]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

If it's about the fans, that would be worth doing but I get the sense the fans are secondary.  The event is for the league, schools, and players first.  The thinking seems to be that if the players love the venue and event then it will help recruiting good players going forward.  In that regard I completely understand how LP is way more attractive than anywhere else considered. If only 4,000 fans show up no matter what, it means little to the league whether they are the 4,000 fans willing to go to LP or the 4,000 willing to go to AC even if there's little to no overlap.   And as Adam says, the players love LP. So for the foreseeable future, the games are in LP and on TV for the many thousands of fans for whom the location is inconvenient. I'm sure the players would love to play in Albany or Worcester or Hartford if the building were filled to capacity but since no building is going to be full, LP is the best experience for them.  Short of maybe New York, Boston, or possibly Newark or Bridgeport the ECAC championship isn't filling arenas and since Boston and NY are off the table, it's a question of whether you could get sufficient fans to Newark or Bridgeport to make the experience better for the league and its players.  I doubt you can.

[MattS]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

If it's about the fans, that would be worth doing but I get the sense the fans are secondary.  The event is for the league, schools, and players first.  The thinking seems to be that if the players love the venue and event then it will help recruiting good players going forward.  In that regard I completely understand how LP is way more attractive than anywhere else considered. If only 4,000 fans show up no matter what, it means little to the league whether they are the 4,000 fans willing to go to LP or the 4,000 willing to go to AC even if there's little to no overlap.   And as Adam says, the players love LP. So for the foreseeable future, the games are in LP and on TV for the many thousands of fans for whom the location is inconvenient. I'm sure the players would love to play in Albany or Worcester or Hartford if the building were filled to capacity but since no building is going to be full, LP is the best experience for them.  Short of maybe New York, Boston, or possibly Newark or Bridgeport the ECAC championship isn't filling arenas and since Boston and NY are off the table, it's a question of whether you could get sufficient fans to Newark or Bridgeport to make the experience better for the league and its players.  I doubt you can.

I can see the players liking it a lot and enjoying playing there. It is obvious that the league and some of the coaches are trying to pass LP as a recruiting tool. However, I wonder how much it really effects recruiting. I just can't see a player thinking: "Well, BC wants me bad and so does Cornell. But dang I could play at Lake Placid if my Cornell teams(s) makes it to the ECAC's. Yeah, definitely CU. LP here I come!"

I think the decision of where to host is all about where the ECAC can make, or most likely lose the least, amount of money. Everything else that that is claimed as the reasons is just cover-up material.

[Josh '99]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

If it's about the fans, that would be worth doing but I get the sense the fans are secondary.  The event is for the league, schools, and players first.  The thinking seems to be that if the players love the venue and event then it will help recruiting good players going forward.  In that regard I completely understand how LP is way more attractive than anywhere else considered. If only 4,000 fans show up no matter what, it means little to the league whether they are the 4,000 fans willing to go to LP or the 4,000 willing to go to AC even if there's little to no overlap.   And as Adam says, the players love LP. So for the foreseeable future, the games are in LP and on TV for the many thousands of fans for whom the location is inconvenient. I'm sure the players would love to play in Albany or Worcester or Hartford if the building were filled to capacity but since no building is going to be full, LP is the best experience for them.  Short of maybe New York, Boston, or possibly Newark or Bridgeport the ECAC championship isn't filling arenas and since Boston and NY are off the table, it's a question of whether you could get sufficient fans to Newark or Bridgeport to make the experience better for the league and its players.  I doubt you can.

I can see the players liking it a lot and enjoying playing there. It is obvious that the league and some of the coaches are trying to pass LP as a recruiting tool. However, I wonder how much it really effects recruiting. I just can't see a player thinking: "Well, BC wants me bad and so does Cornell. But dang I could play at Lake Placid if my Cornell teams(s) makes it to the ECAC's. Yeah, definitely CU. LP here I come!"

I think the decision of where to host is all about where the ECAC can make, or most likely lose the least, amount of money. Everything else that that is claimed as the reasons is just cover-up material.

Well, look, if BC is going hard after a guy with the sales pitch that they might very likely win one or two national championships while the guy is there, then LP isn't going to too much of a selling point.  As a pot-sweetener to help decide between Cornell and, say, Maine or Ohio State or Miami, it could possibly be a factor.  In other words, LP is a nice cherry on top, but it's not the sundae itself.

[MattS]

Throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks is not how good businesses operate.

Said it before, will say it again ... Attendance is going to be bad pretty much no matter where they put it. Might as well put it in a place with prestige. The attendance in LP won't be any worse than any other location, so it belies your point about it being so difficult to get to. The prestige factor matters to coaches because it matters to players and recruits, which is good for the league as a whole. Players all rave about going there. That's really all you need to know about why it's the best choice. If it inconveniences some fans - then that's a price they're willing to pay, and I don't blame them. It can be watched on TV.  No one used to blink about driving 6 hrs from Ithaca to Boston.

Also - it's not Hagwell's choice on where to go. The schools decide. And I can tell you, Cornell was a big factor - though I think its first choice was Albany.

I understand that it's the school's choice, but why don't they ever do a poll of the fans from each school. See where they would prefer. Sure it would cost some money, but not much. Sure, it wouldn't identify, for sure, those fans that would actually attend. But I'm also sure that a school like Quinnipiac, which has done many polls and has a polling institute, could design one that would be reasonably accurate.

If it's about the fans, that would be worth doing but I get the sense the fans are secondary.  The event is for the league, schools, and players first.  The thinking seems to be that if the players love the venue and event then it will help recruiting good players going forward.  In that regard I completely understand how LP is way more attractive than anywhere else considered. If only 4,000 fans show up no matter what, it means little to the league whether they are the 4,000 fans willing to go to LP or the 4,000 willing to go to AC even if there's little to no overlap.   And as Adam says, the players love LP. So for the foreseeable future, the games are in LP and on TV for the many thousands of fans for whom the location is inconvenient. I'm sure the players would love to play in Albany or Worcester or Hartford if the building were filled to capacity but since no building is going to be full, LP is the best experience for them.  Short of maybe New York, Boston, or possibly Newark or Bridgeport the ECAC championship isn't filling arenas and since Boston and NY are off the table, it's a question of whether you could get sufficient fans to Newark or Bridgeport to make the experience better for the league and its players.  I doubt you can.

I can see the players liking it a lot and enjoying playing there. It is obvious that the league and some of the coaches are trying to pass LP as a recruiting tool. However, I wonder how much it really effects recruiting. I just can't see a player thinking: "Well, BC wants me bad and so does Cornell. But dang I could play at Lake Placid if my Cornell teams(s) makes it to the ECAC's. Yeah, definitely CU. LP here I come!"

I think the decision of where to host is all about where the ECAC can make, or most likely lose the least, amount of money. Everything else that that is claimed as the reasons is just cover-up material.

Well, look, if BC is going hard after a guy with the sales pitch that they might very likely win one or two national championships while the guy is there, then LP isn't going to too much of a selling point.  As a pot-sweetener to help decide between Cornell and, say, Maine or Ohio State or Miami, it could possibly be a factor.  In other words, LP is a nice cherry on top, but it's not the sundae itself.

I just used BC as an example off the top of my head. I did not mean to imply BC specifically against CU (or any ECAC team). Insert almost any ECAC team and a non-ECAC team in and I still believe my point stands. To use your example, I think if anything LP might be one sprinkle (or jimmie) out of hundreds on the sundae.

[KeithK]

I can see the players liking it a lot and enjoying playing there. It is obvious that the league and some of the coaches are trying to pass LP as a recruiting tool. However, I wonder how much it really effects recruiting. I just can't see a player thinking: "Well, BC wants me bad and so does Cornell. But dang I could play at Lake Placid if my Cornell teams(s) makes it to the ECAC's. Yeah, definitely CU. LP here I come!"

I also wonder about the recruiting effect of LP.  Specifically I wonder how much the LP Olympics and Miracle mean to a kid that was born in the mid to late 90's. Sure they've heard about it and the movie helps but the context of those games has to be somewhat lost on someone for whom the Cold War is something out of a textbook.