ECAC Inferiority

[Rosey]

The "odd" part to me is the PWR.  This isn't college basketball, where huge piles of teams are evaluated by a nebulous and shady committee.  There's a rule to who gets in.  So if the ECAC is overrated, maybe that's a problem with PWR?

I think this goes without saying. Part of the issue here is that there aren't enough inter-conference matchups to really determine an accurate SOS for teams that mostly don't play each other. Krach is better than PWR IMO, but even it is dealing with the same problem of limited information. I don't know that there really is a way to make this substantively better: given the limited and uneven scheduling between conferences, any "solution" is mostly going to suck.

[Rosey]

Here's an interesting thought: is it possible for teams to play non-NCAA games against each other during the regular season, or is that prohibited by NCAA rules?

[RichH]

Here's an interesting thought: is it possible for teams to play non-NCAA games against each other during the regular season, or is that prohibited by NCAA rules?

There are exceptions to the NCAA games limit, like the Ice-breaker tournament, or a game in Alaska. (I think).

Something I'd like to see is the "scrimmage" arrangement that Lacrosse has.  We play real teams that don't count in the NCAA criteria.  Much better than playing Guelph or some random Canadian school that may or may not represent the same kind of competition & style that we'll see the rest of the season.

[Rosey]

Here's an interesting thought: is it possible for teams to play non-NCAA games against each other during the regular season, or is that prohibited by NCAA rules?

There are exceptions to the NCAA games limit, like the Ice-breaker tournament, or a game in Alaska. (I think).

Something I'd like to see is the "scrimmage" arrangement that Lacrosse has.  We play real teams that don't count in the NCAA criteria.  Much better than playing Guelph or some random Canadian school that may or may not represent the same kind of competition & style that we'll see the rest of the season.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I'd like to see some exhibition games against real teams: it's good for the ECAC teams because it gives them practice against real competition, and it's not bad for the opponents because it doesn't count against them in the PWR if they lose.

[profudge]

Firefly was never cancelled. It's just on hiatus. . . .

I too pray for this truth!   ::innocent::

After watching the East regional I have to say That Yale  played hard and reasonably well - but ran into a Minn-Duluth team that had the horses and the foot speed to stay with Yale and maybe a bit more.  UMD was very hot as was their keeper.  Competently handled Union in my mind although Union keeper was pretty good to keep them in the game,   UMD was able to be both "fast" and  "physical"  a rare ability - and their Keeper seemed very wired in and on his game!

[nyc94]

teams in HE, WCHA, and CCHA don't have to play OOC games to toughen their schedules.

I get your point but if they want to "prove" their schedule is tough in KRACH or RPI a league as a whole has to play and win OOC games.

[Rosey]

teams in HE, WCHA, and CCHA don't have to play OOC games to toughen their schedules.

I get your point but if they want to "prove" their schedule is tough in KRACH or RPI a league as a whole has to play and win OOC games.

Sure, but the post to which I was responding had nothing to do with proof of anything, but rather was about conditioning ECAC teams to play top national competition. There was a later sub-thread about the accuracy of the PWR given that Yale had an early exit despite being the #1 overall seed, but that is an entirely different issue.

[ebilmes]

Cornell needs revenue from home games. Hence, teams like Niagara and Wayne State come to Lynah, instead of Cornell traveling to Madison or Ann Arbor or BC or whatever for the kinds of games that would really make us better.

[Jim Hyla]

Cornell needs revenue from home games. Hence, teams like Niagara and Wayne State come to Lynah, instead of Cornell traveling to Madison or Ann Arbor or BC or whatever for the kinds of games that would really make us better.

Under the present Ivy restrictions, I don't know if the games you suggest would necessarily make us better. With our game and practice restrictions we have limited choices. As evidenced by our UNH game this year, starting with high profile games doesn't help, it hurts. We generally have a weekend in January where we could travel for a set of games, but otherwise we need some lighter games in the beginning to get up and running. Scheduling a set of difficult games to start the season, would likely lead to losses, not improve the team, and hurt our pairwise.

Until, if ever, we get Ivy changes, we are looking at what we've got; some early warm up games, Florida, after Thanksgiving, and when we can schedule them, the occasional January tough game. So if other schools like UND and BU are nice to us, we can get 1-3 "midseason" tough games.

[billhoward]

Cornell needs revenue from home games. Hence, teams like Niagara and Wayne State come to Lynah, instead of Cornell traveling to Madison or Ann Arbor or BC or whatever for the kinds of games that would really make us better.

Under the present Ivy restrictions, I don't know if the games you suggest would necessarily make us better. With our game and practice restrictions we have limited choices. As evidenced by our UNH game this year, starting with high profile games doesn't help, it hurts. We generally have a weekend in January where we could travel for a set of games, but otherwise we need some lighter games in the beginning to get up and running. Scheduling a set of difficult games to start the season, would likely lead to losses, not improve the team, and hurt our pairwise.

Until, if ever, we get Ivy changes, we are looking at what we've got; some early warm up games, Florida, after Thanksgiving, and when we can schedule them, the occasional January tough game. So if other schools like UND and BU are nice to us, we can get 1-3 "midseason" tough games.

If Cornell keeps an every-other-year series going against BU in NYC, that's one good team, and Cornell needs something else in the even years (not Colgate at the Prudential Center, Newark), maybe a doubleheader in Boston at the Garden.

The lacrosse team schedules tough opponents early and lives with the losses when they come. Though the Ivy spot in the lax NCAAs is a less unsure thing for Cornell than the ECAC berth in hockey.

[ajh258]

Cornell needs revenue from home games. Hence, teams like Niagara and Wayne State come to Lynah, instead of Cornell traveling to Madison or Ann Arbor or BC or whatever for the kinds of games that would really make us better.

Under the present Ivy restrictions, I don't know if the games you suggest would necessarily make us better. With our game and practice restrictions we have limited choices. As evidenced by our UNH game this year, starting with high profile games doesn't help, it hurts. We generally have a weekend in January where we could travel for a set of games, but otherwise we need some lighter games in the beginning to get up and running. Scheduling a set of difficult games to start the season, would likely lead to losses, not improve the team, and hurt our pairwise.

Until, if ever, we get Ivy changes, we are looking at what we've got; some early warm up games, Florida, after Thanksgiving, and when we can schedule them, the occasional January tough game. So if other schools like UND and BU are nice to us, we can get 1-3 "midseason" tough games.

I agree. We played UND in January 2010 and split that series with them at home. Although we did not play that well on the ice, the results would have been much different if the series was scheduled in October. If it weren't for the losses to Princeton and CC, an at-large bid would have been very likely with that split.

Similar to Jim's suggestion, I think our best strategy is to lobby the Ivy League to extend the hockey season, start off with easier teams early and schedule all the tougher games during that December-January stretch. We can play other ECAC teams more than two times a year, but I'd prefer that happen earlier in the season rather than later. A Colgate matchup is super boring during Thanksgiving break, but if it was the first game of the season, I would expect a neutral venue in upstate NY to be sold out.

[Swampy]

Cornell needs revenue from home games. Hence, teams like Niagara and Wayne State come to Lynah, instead of Cornell traveling to Madison or Ann Arbor or BC or whatever for the kinds of games that would really make us better.

Under the present Ivy restrictions, I don't know if the games you suggest would necessarily make us better. With our game and practice restrictions we have limited choices. As evidenced by our UNH game this year, starting with high profile games doesn't help, it hurts. We generally have a weekend in January where we could travel for a set of games, but otherwise we need some lighter games in the beginning to get up and running. Scheduling a set of difficult games to start the season, would likely lead to losses, not improve the team, and hurt our pairwise.

Until, if ever, we get Ivy changes, we are looking at what we've got; some early warm up games, Florida, after Thanksgiving, and when we can schedule them, the occasional January tough game. So if other schools like UND and BU are nice to us, we can get 1-3 "midseason" tough games.

If Cornell keeps an every-other-year series going against BU in NYC, that's one good team, and Cornell needs something else in the even years (not Colgate at the Prudential Center, Newark), maybe a doubleheader in Boston at the Garden.

The lacrosse team schedules tough opponents early and lives with the losses when they come. Though the Ivy spot in the lax NCAAs is a less unsure thing for Cornell than the ECAC berth in hockey.

I still think an early-season HE/ECAC weekend would be a good idea. It could be tuned not to duplicate Cornell/BU in MSG, or the Beanpot in the case of Harvard. It could also be hyped and probably get TV coverage on NESN (for ECAC) and in the middle-Atlantic states for (HE).

[KeithK]

Since the thread started with some "in a perfect world" fantasy suggestions, I'll offer one of my own. Lets have the NCAA require that all teams play half of their games on the road. That would prevent the big money teams (Michigan, Minnesota) from insisting on all home OOC games. It's an unfair advantage for those teams and is one of the reasons that Cornell doesn't schedule these teams since we refuse to do one sided agreements (at least with top caliber teams).

Neutral site games would have to be excluded from the count to prevent gaming of the numbers with tournaments.

[css228]

I think the only Ivy that is really interested in extending the OOC schedule is Cornell though. I don't see why the other schools would insist on it. However it'd be great if we could schedule the UAH's and AHA teams of the world for that first weekend and put the UNH's in the weekend before finals,

[Jim Hyla]

I think the only Ivy that is really interested in extending the OOC schedule is Cornell though. I don't see why the other schools would insist on it. However it'd be great if we could schedule the UAH's and AHA teams of the world for that first weekend and put the UNH's in the weekend before finals,

I'm not sure that the athletic departments of the schools don't want it. It seems all the schools are looking to be nationally competitive, but I doubt the whole of the universities want it. I'd see finances as the major stumbling block. Sports are more and more having to fund themselves, and trips out west aren't cheap. HE schools would be easier, and probably mutually beneficial for some. I don't know if schools like Merrimack and Northeastern routinely sell out; a home game with us might draw a lot of fans.