ECAC Inferiority

[Josh '99]

The lacrosse team schedules tough opponents early and lives with the losses when they come. Though the Ivy spot in the lax NCAAs is a less unsure thing for Cornell than the ECAC berth in hockey.

The lacrosse team also doesn't have nearly as delayed a start as the hockey team does.  I don't know what the practice schedules are like, but the Ivy schools only played their first games a week later than most other schools (2/26 instead of 2/19 or 2/20).  And, also, the team started the season with Hobart and Binghamton before playing Army and Virginia (and this has been the case for the past three seasons; in 2010 the season started with Hobart and Canisius, and in 2009 with Binghamton and eventual 6-10 finisher Army).

[jtwcornell91]

Since the thread started with some "in a perfect world" fantasy suggestions, I'll offer one of my own. Lets have the NCAA require that all teams play half of their games on the road. That would prevent the big money teams (Michigan, Minnesota) from insisting on all home OOC games. It's an unfair advantage for those teams and is one of the reasons that Cornell doesn't schedule these teams since we refuse to do one sided agreements (at least with top caliber teams).

Neutral site games would have to be excluded from the count to prevent gaming of the numbers with tournaments.

Well, in the best of all possible worlds, the NCAA would switch to Bradley-Terry for tournament seeding, and use KASA rather than KRACH to accurately capture the challenge of playing on the road and thereby mitigate the advantage of teams playing extra home games.

[sethred]

THere is no doubt that the ECAC isn't as as strong as the other Division 1 hockey conferences. The "one and done format" does give a weaker squad a better chance for victory. Especially, in hockey, where the importance of a hot goalie (e.g Dadswell in the 1986 ecac tourney or the RIT goalie last year), can increase the chances of an upset. Remember, no one really thinks that 1980 Team USA was a better team than the 1980 Soviet Team. There is a reason why the professional championships are decided in best of seven game series.

[css228]

I think the only Ivy that is really interested in extending the OOC schedule is Cornell though. I don't see why the other schools would insist on it. However it'd be great if we could schedule the UAH's and AHA teams of the world for that first weekend and put the UNH's in the weekend before finals,

I'm not sure that the athletic departments of the schools don't want it. It seems all the schools are looking to be nationally competitive, but I doubt the whole of the universities want it. I'd see finances as the major stumbling block. Sports are more and more having to fund themselves, and trips out west aren't cheap. HE schools would be easier, and probably mutually beneficial for some. I don't know if schools like Merrimack and Northeastern routinely sell out; a home game with us might draw a lot of fans.

I guess that's true. Let's put it this way, I think Cornell is the only Ivy where the administration, not just the AD would be behind OOC schedule expansion. I'd like to see a series with PSU, MSU or Michigan get established on a regular basis if possible. Travel costs wouldn't be too bad for of those, and worse comes to worse, we could schedule neutrally against these teams in places like Philadelphia or Chicago. Miami of Ohio would also be a nice as well as Ohio State and Notre Dame. None of the travel expenses to the Midwest would be that bad. The problem is really going to play WCHA teams or either Alaska Team, or Air Force. I mean we're as close to Ohio as we are Maine.

[billhoward]

I think the only Ivy that is really interested in extending the OOC schedule is Cornell though. I don't see why the other schools would insist on it. However it'd be great if we could schedule the UAH's and AHA teams of the world for that first weekend and put the UNH's in the weekend before finals,

I'm not sure that the athletic departments of the schools don't want it. It seems all the schools are looking to be nationally competitive, but I doubt the whole of the universities want it. I'd see finances as the major stumbling block. Sports are more and more having to fund themselves, and trips out west aren't cheap. HE schools would be easier, and probably mutually beneficial for some. I don't know if schools like Merrimack and Northeastern routinely sell out; a home game with us might draw a lot of fans.

I guess that's true. Let's put it this way, I think Cornell is the only Ivy where the administration, not just the AD would be behind OOC schedule expansion. I'd like to see a series with PSU, MSU or Michigan get established on a regular basis if possible. Travel costs wouldn't be too bad for of those, and worse comes to worse, we could schedule neutrally against these teams in places like Philadelphia or Chicago. Miami of Ohio would also be a nice as well as Ohio State and Notre Dame. None of the travel expenses to the Midwest would be that bad. The problem is really going to play WCHA teams or either Alaska Team, or Air Force. I mean we're as close to Ohio as we are Maine.

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

[billhoward]

Since the thread started with some "in a perfect world" fantasy suggestions, I'll offer one of my own. Lets have the NCAA require that all teams play half of their games on the road. That would prevent the big money teams (Michigan, Minnesota) from insisting on all home OOC games. It's an unfair advantage for those teams and is one of the reasons that Cornell doesn't schedule these teams since we refuse to do one sided agreements (at least with top caliber teams).

Neutral site games would have to be excluded from the count to prevent gaming of the numbers with tournaments.

Well, in the best of all possible worlds, the NCAA would switch to Bradley-Terry for tournament seeding, and use KASA rather than KRACH to accurately capture the challenge of playing on the road and thereby mitigate the advantage of teams playing extra home games.

The NCAA thinks Bradley-Terry was one of the basketball play-ins along with VCU-USC.

[Josh '99]

I think the only Ivy that is really interested in extending the OOC schedule is Cornell though. I don't see why the other schools would insist on it. However it'd be great if we could schedule the UAH's and AHA teams of the world for that first weekend and put the UNH's in the weekend before finals,

I'm not sure that the athletic departments of the schools don't want it. It seems all the schools are looking to be nationally competitive, but I doubt the whole of the universities want it. I'd see finances as the major stumbling block. Sports are more and more having to fund themselves, and trips out west aren't cheap. HE schools would be easier, and probably mutually beneficial for some. I don't know if schools like Merrimack and Northeastern routinely sell out; a home game with us might draw a lot of fans.

I guess that's true. Let's put it this way, I think Cornell is the only Ivy where the administration, not just the AD would be behind OOC schedule expansion. I'd like to see a series with PSU, MSU or Michigan get established on a regular basis if possible. Travel costs wouldn't be too bad for of those, and worse comes to worse, we could schedule neutrally against these teams in places like Philadelphia or Chicago. Miami of Ohio would also be a nice as well as Ohio State and Notre Dame. None of the travel expenses to the Midwest would be that bad. The problem is really going to play WCHA teams or either Alaska Team, or Air Force. I mean we're as close to Ohio as we are Maine.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but: if we were to schedule a trip to play at UAF or UAA, would we get an exemption above the 29-game Ivy limit?

[KeithK]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but: if we were to schedule a trip to play at UAF or UAA, would we get an exemption above the 29-game Ivy limit?

I don't know but I would assume it wouldn't.

[Ben]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

[billhoward]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

Sorry if I was unclear. I believe we're both talking about the football playoffs for the teams in the subdivision one level south of LSU, Penn State, and Alabama -- the one tha seems to get its name changed every once in a while so you're never sure which term refers to all-out football and which refers to the group one giant step below. It is a good question and I think the answer is: Just because.

[Ben]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

Sorry if I was unclear. I believe we're both talking about the football playoffs for the teams in the subdivision one level south of LSU, Penn State, and Alabama -- the one tha seems to get its name changed every once in a while so you're never sure which term refers to all-out football and which refers to the group one giant step below. It is a good question and I think the answer is: Just because.

Yeah, it's the same division - I was just pointing out that the normal explanation (the FCS playoffs conflict with fall semester finals) doesn't appear to apply to lacrosse.

[Jim Hyla]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

Sorry if I was unclear. I believe we're both talking about the football playoffs for the teams in the subdivision one level south of LSU, Penn State, and Alabama -- the one tha seems to get its name changed every once in a while so you're never sure which term refers to all-out football and which refers to the group one giant step below. It is a good question and I think the answer is: Just because.

Yeah, it's the same division - I was just pointing out that the normal explanation (the FCS playoffs conflict with fall semester finals) doesn't appear to apply to lacrosse.

Not that I agree with the policy, but they'd say football is much more intense, further travel, etc. and involves more students. Although with the way lacrosse is going they will catch up in both areas soon.

[Swampy]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

It's obvious. Football is a big-time sport, so football players must be dumb jocks. On the other hand,although there is a professional lacrosse league, college lacrosse is pretty much as big as it gets. So lacrosse players must be smarter: "Almost all of us are going to go pro in something else after graduation."

So football players can't afford to miss time from class, but lacrosse players can.

Then there's the case of Jim Brown ....

[css228]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

It's obvious. Football is a big-time sport, so football players must be dumb jocks. On the other hand,although there is a professional lacrosse league, college lacrosse is pretty much as big as it gets. So lacrosse players must be smarter: "Almost all of us are going to go pro in something else after graduation."

So football players can't afford to miss time from class, but lacrosse players can.

Then there's the case of Jim Brown ....

You don't even want to know how much class is missed for the NCAA Basketball tournament. You're required to be at the site of the games 2 days early so if you go to the National championship say good-bye to a month of class.

[Chris '03]

Let's work on getting the Ivies eligible for the Division 1-A-Something football playoffs, too. The Ivy presidents discriminate against football in a way that doesn't cause them any trouble with any federal affirmative action / equal opportunities commission. Right now that benefits Harvard but in a couple years, maybe us, too.

Related to this: why is it that the Ivy champion can't play in the FCS playoffs, but lacrosse teams can play in the NCAAs during spring semester exams?

It's obvious. Football is a big-time sport, so football players must be dumb jocks. On the other hand,although there is a professional lacrosse league, college lacrosse is pretty much as big as it gets. So lacrosse players must be smarter: "Almost all of us are going to go pro in something else after graduation."

So football players can't afford to miss time from class, but lacrosse players can.

Then there's the case of Jim Brown ....

You don't even want to know how much class is missed for the NCAA Basketball tournament. You're required to be at the site of the games 2 days early so if you go to the National championship say good-bye to a month of class.

While I totally agree with the underlying sentiment, to be fair, most schools have a spring break sprinkled in there somewhere. That doesn't excuse all the days of class missed by college basketball players going all over the nation to play mid-week games for the benefit of tv.