The least disciplined team in the ECAC

[TimV]

Sometimes the monumentally whining RPI thread on USCHO comes up with something to think about.  They listed penalty minutes in the ECAC with some minor discrepancies relating to box score sources.  Cornell through last weekend leads in penalty minutes it seems mainly because we have so many major and misconduct penalties.  One guy compared penalty minutes with these majors and misconducts backed out, and these were the top 4:

Cornell - 20.75mpg with, 12.33 without
Clarkson - 17.76mpg with, 14.23 without
Brown - 14.35mpg with, 11.41 without
RPI - 13.61 with, 12.77 without

See it here. Posts #763-765

It looks like we're pretty average for penalties without the majors and misconducts.  What's going on with this year's Red?

[redice]

It's been obvious to me for some time, that this is the most undisciplined team Mike Schafer has had during it time at Cornell..In the past, I used to brag how, when the scrums started, the Cornell players would drop their arms by their sides & skate away...Not this year's team!!  And, I'm damned sorry to make these statements.

The statistics merely bear out reality..

[Al DeFlorio]

It's been obvious to me for some time, that this is the most undisciplined team Mike Schafer has had during it time at Cornell..In the past, I used to brag how, when the scrums started, the Cornell players would drop their arms by their sides & skate away...Not this year's team!!  And, I'm damned sorry to make these statements.

The statistics merely bear out reality..

Interestingly, here's a quote from Mike in today's Daily Sun:

"Our team is very disciplined," said head coach Mike Schafer '86. "I think if you're a team that's undisciplined ... then you have to worry about something [like the Harvard game]. We've been in very big emotional games already this year ... and we've maintained our discipline."

::screwy::

[ftyuv]

I'm pretty out of the loop on this team, but I did see the @Sucks game, and it did occur to me that we're pretty undisciplined. I think it was #4 specifically who caught my eye as a bit of a goon -- he took I think two really blatant, "I'm going to cross-check you cause I'm angry, grrrr!" penalties.

[ftyuv]

I'm pretty out of the loop on this team, but I did see the @Sucks game, and it did occur to me that we're pretty undisciplined. I think it was #4 specifically who caught my eye as a bit of a goon -- he took I think two really blatant, "I'm going to cross-check you cause I'm angry, grrrr!" penalties.

Clearly I remembered the wrong number -- #4 doesn't appear to show up on the penalty sheet at all. http://cornellbigred.com/news/2011/1/29/MICE_0129110845.aspx

[Jim Hyla]

From the IJ article on this weekend:

"It was almost like they were trying to be business-like, and they just can't," coach Mike Schafer said of Friday's debacle at Union. "This team can't be business-like. They've got to play with an edge. They've got to play excited, and they've got to play with enthusiasm."

So is that why? But anyway, getting on to this weekend, a few quotes:

"The Harvard weekend's always kind of an easy weekend to get kind of jacked up for with them being the main rivalry with us," co-captain Patrick Kennedy said. "Those games are always fun with the fish (tradition) and the fans. It's kind of the game of the year that everyone circles on the calendar."

and this:

"It's where we want to be. We couldn't ask for anything else," sophomore defenseman Nick D'Agostino said of Cornell's position. "We didn't get the start we wanted, but if you had told us at the beginning of the year when we were 0-3 that we'd be a few wins after from getting that home ice and possibly even third place in the standings, I think a lot of us would have taken that."

Here's hoping they play with enthusiasm and discipline.

[Towerroad]

It's been obvious to me for some time, that this is the most undisciplined team Mike Schafer has had during it time at Cornell..In the past, I used to brag how, when the scrums started, the Cornell players would drop their arms by their sides & skate away...Not this year's team!!  And, I'm damned sorry to make these statements.

The statistics merely bear out reality..

Interestingly, here's a quote from Mike in today's Daily Sun:

"Our team is very disciplined," said head coach Mike Schafer '86. "I think if you're a team that's undisciplined ... then you have to worry about something [like the Harvard game]. We've been in very big emotional games already this year ... and we've maintained our discipline."

::screwy::

Clearly the data does not support the contention that we are disciplined. I have been to 2 games this season and I agree I was surprised at the number of dumb penalties we have taken. At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think this is in part the changing nature of the game which is moving away from the Schafer style.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

It's been obvious to me for some time, that this is the most undisciplined team Mike Schafer has had during it time at Cornell..In the past, I used to brag how, when the scrums started, the Cornell players would drop their arms by their sides & skate away...Not this year's team!!  And, I'm damned sorry to make these statements.

The statistics merely bear out reality..

Interestingly, here's a quote from Mike in today's Daily Sun:

"Our team is very disciplined," said head coach Mike Schafer '86. "I think if you're a team that's undisciplined ... then you have to worry about something [like the Harvard game]. We've been in very big emotional games already this year ... and we've maintained our discipline."

::screwy::

Clearly the data does not support the contention that we are disciplined. I have been to 2 games this season and I agree I was surprised at the number of dumb penalties we have taken. At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think this is in part the changing nature of the game which is moving away from the Schafer style.

I think Schafer is trying to maintain discipline, hence his benching of Nicholls during the SLU game.  But let's face it, they're a young team.  They going to play like it.

[Towerroad]

It's been obvious to me for some time, that this is the most undisciplined team Mike Schafer has had during it time at Cornell..In the past, I used to brag how, when the scrums started, the Cornell players would drop their arms by their sides & skate away...Not this year's team!!  And, I'm damned sorry to make these statements.

The statistics merely bear out reality..

Interestingly, here's a quote from Mike in today's Daily Sun:

"Our team is very disciplined," said head coach Mike Schafer '86. "I think if you're a team that's undisciplined ... then you have to worry about something [like the Harvard game]. We've been in very big emotional games already this year ... and we've maintained our discipline."

::screwy::

Clearly the data does not support the contention that we are disciplined. I have been to 2 games this season and I agree I was surprised at the number of dumb penalties we have taken. At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think this is in part the changing nature of the game which is moving away from the Schafer style.

I think Schafer is trying to maintain discipline, hence his benching of Nicholls during the SLU game.  But let's face it, they're a young team.  They going to play like it.

I agree but this quote, if accurate, seems out of touch with the facts. The coach might be trying to instill discipline and the relative inexperience, as you suggest, might be the reason for our lack of discipline. All the stats bear this out. We do not have a disciplined team when it comes to penalties.  We are giving, on average, 2+ mins of power plays to the other teams over the season.

[hypotenuse]

Benching Nicholls didn't help too much. Didn't he go right out against Union and get an early penalty which put us in a hole early?

[Trotsky]

It would be interesting to see ECAC teams compared on "PIM drawn."  I guess the number of power plays in league games is a fair indicator.

Code Select Expand

Power Play:                    Totals    SHA       PCT
  1   Yale                     24/102      2      23.5
  2   Union                    16/ 72      3      22.2
  3   Princeton                21/ 99      2      21.2
  4   Dartmouth                14/ 67      1      20.9
  5   Rensselaer               19/ 93      0      20.4
  6   Harvard                  12/ 66      0      18.2
  7   Cornell                  13/ 72      0      18.1
  8   St. Lawrence             14/ 80      1      17.5
  9   Clarkson                 11/ 69      2      15.9
 10   Quinnipiac               11/ 75      3      14.7
 11   Brown                     9/ 70      2      12.9
 12   Colgate                   8/ 98      5       8.2

Note our number of penalty kills in league games is average:

Code Select Expand

Penalty Kill:                  Totals    SHF       PCT
  1   St. Lawrence             73/ 83      0      88.0
  2   Dartmouth                65/ 75      5      86.7
  3   Cornell                  71/ 82      2      86.6
  4   Rensselaer               84/ 98      2      85.7
  5   Yale                     65/ 79      1      82.3
  6   Harvard                  55/ 67      2      82.1
  7   Union                    59/ 72      0      81.9
  8   Clarkson                 86/105      0      81.9
  9   Quinnipiac               48/ 60      0      80.0
 10   Brown                    61/ 78      4      78.2
 11   Princeton                60/ 79      5      75.9
 12   Colgate                  64/ 85      0      75.3

All of which seems to correlate with speed: Yale fast, gets pulled down a lot; Clarkson slow, gets behind the play a lot.

Also: Colgate is dangerously close to getting outscored while on powerplay.

[BigRedHockeyFan]

And the least disciplined fans.

[ithacat]

Reading this thread for the first time after having returned home from the game I would have sworn it was entirely written post game.

Up 1-0, Nicholls takes a penalty 7 minutes into the game...tied 1-1.
Tied 1-1 with a 5:00 PP coming up, Mowrey takes a penalty after the whistle...Harvard takes a 2-1 lead.
Two more PP goals by Harvard and a very winnable game turns into a loss.

[Jim Hyla]

Reading this thread for the first time after having returned home from the game I would have sworn it was entirely written post game.

Up 1-0, Nicholls takes a penalty 7 minutes into the game...tied 1-1.
Tied 1-1 with a 5:00 PP coming up, Mowrey takes a penalty after the whistle...Harvard takes a 2-1 lead.
Two more PP goals by Harvard and a very winnable game turns into a loss.

Except for Nicholls penalty, which I didn't see, and the fans penalty (I've said it before, it's time to quit the fish. It just doesn't add anything, but), I have nothing to complain about the penalties. Many, if not most players would do what Mowrey did. It certainly didn't seem like a major hit by him, and sometimes would be let go. Our problem wasn't the penalties, it was the undisciplined PK. 3 for 4 shouldn't happen.

[BigRedHockeyFan]

Psychologically, the fish penalty really deflated the team.  It's tough enough to win on the ice; a team doesn't need to have their fans helping the opposing team.