The least disciplined team in the ECAC

[BigRedHockeyFan]

From Donnie Webb's column at Syracuse.com before the game:

Cornell head coach Mike Schafer said the Harvard rivalry and the tradition of throwing fish at the Crimson is the kind of event that is special to college athletics. He said he understands how football games in the Southeastern Conference have their own special place in sports. But so does the Cornell-Harvard game.  "There's electricity in the building," Shafer said. "It just doesn't get any better."

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From the Ithaca Journal after the game:

The annual tradition of showering the Crimson with aquatic life is permitted in pre-game festivities, but a warning was issued after it continued following a Big Red goal in the second period.  Referees Bob Ritchie and Kevin Graber stuck to their guns in the third, putting Cornell shorthanded to sack the hosts of any momentum they had built after equalizing a game with their most heated rival.

"The fans, they hurt us," Schafer said. "They wanted the tradition to live, but it absolutely killed us."

[Towerroad]

From Donnie Webb's column at Syracuse.com before the game:

Cornell head coach Mike Schafer said the Harvard rivalry and the tradition of throwing fish at the Crimson is the kind of event that is special to college athletics. He said he understands how football games in the Southeastern Conference have their own special place in sports. But so does the Cornell-Harvard game.  "There's electricity in the building," Shafer said. "It just doesn't get any better."

----------------------------------------

From the Ithaca Journal after the game:

The annual tradition of showering the Crimson with aquatic life is permitted in pre-game festivities, but a warning was issued after it continued following a Big Red goal in the second period.  Referees Bob Ritchie and Kevin Graber stuck to their guns in the third, putting Cornell shorthanded to sack the hosts of any momentum they had built after equalizing a game with their most heated rival.

"The fans, they hurt us," Schafer said. "They wanted the tradition to live, but it absolutely killed us."

Sorry but this last quote is, pardon my French, BS. This season we have taken 100 more minutes of penalties than Yale, and 150 more than Union. That is the equivalent of playing 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down. Yeah, the fool that threw the bottle/fish caused a penalty but lack of discipline caused the loss. It is one thing to blame the refs but when the coach starts blaming the fans something is really wrong. I think you can just as easily blame yesterdays loss on the stupid hit after the 5 min major. Was that smart? Defending your team mate? A 5 min powerplay is the best way to avenge thuggish behavior.

[Trotsky]

I'm sure nobody is more frustrated than the players about last night.  They outplayed Harvard for large stretches, hit a crossbar and a post, and had a weak goalie seemingly at their mercy time and time again, but three different times they had to dig out of a hole, and the third time was just a bridge too far.

At the end of the day, if they win tonight they will be tied for third.  In the words of Annie Savoy, "it's a long season and you gotta trust it."

[redice]

Sorry but this last quote is, pardon my French, BS. This season we have taken 100 more minutes of penalties than Yale, and 150 more than Union. That is the equivalent of playing 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down. Yeah, the fool that threw the bottle/fish caused a penalty but lack of discipline caused the loss. It is one thing to blame the refs but when the coach starts blaming the fans something is really wrong. I think you can just as easily blame yesterdays loss on the stupid hit after the 5 min major. Was that smart? Defending your team mate? A 5 min powerplay is the best way to avenge thuggish behavior.

In past years, when we've had an effective power play, we could find some agreement on those points...The 10-11 PP has been so abysmal that I often wish we could decline the other team's penalties (ala football)....When we fail to capitalize on a PP, it often gives momentum to the other team...The concept that we have a 5-minute major & can score more than one goal just isn't a consideration this season...For you 'stat-hounds' out there, have we even scored one goal on a 5-minute major penalty this season?   I'm not recalling any...

Yes, the child who threw an object on the ice and & drew that penalty for CU, should be identified & barred from Lynah until he/she grows up...And yes, I realize that that will not happen!!::asshole::

[Towerroad]

I'm sure nobody is more frustrated than the players about last night.  They outplayed Harvard for large stretches, hit a crossbar and a post, and had a weak goalie seemingly at their mercy time and time again, but three different times they had to dig out of a hole, and the third time was just a bridge too far.

At the end of the day, if they win tonight they will be tied for third.  In the words of Annie Savoy, "it's a long season and you gotta trust it."

I think there is a lot of frustration going around. It looks to me like something is broken and the question is what will we do about it.

[Jim Hyla]

From Donnie Webb's column at Syracuse.com before the game:

Cornell head coach Mike Schafer said the Harvard rivalry and the tradition of throwing fish at the Crimson is the kind of event that is special to college athletics. He said he understands how football games in the Southeastern Conference have their own special place in sports. But so does the Cornell-Harvard game.  "There's electricity in the building," Shafer said. "It just doesn't get any better."

----------------------------------------

From the Ithaca Journal after the game:

The annual tradition of showering the Crimson with aquatic life is permitted in pre-game festivities, but a warning was issued after it continued following a Big Red goal in the second period.  Referees Bob Ritchie and Kevin Graber stuck to their guns in the third, putting Cornell shorthanded to sack the hosts of any momentum they had built after equalizing a game with their most heated rival.

"The fans, they hurt us," Schafer said. "They wanted the tradition to live, but it absolutely killed us."

Sorry but this last quote is, pardon my French, BS. This season we have taken 100 more minutes of penalties than Yale, and 150 more than Union. That is the equivalent of playing 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down. Yeah, the fool that threw the bottle/fish caused a penalty but lack of discipline caused the loss. It is one thing to blame the refs but when the coach starts blaming the fans something is really wrong. I think you can just as easily blame yesterdays loss on the stupid hit after the 5 min major. Was that smart? Defending your team mate? A 5 min powerplay is the best way to avenge thuggish behavior.

Actually your math doesn't add up. 10 min penalties don't give PPs, just minutes. Here's the full IJ article. It shows that the team is in the middle third of the ECAC in terms of SH situations. I fully endorse him blaming the fans for hurting the team. The fans did hurt the team. It's happened before and will happen again, unless we stop the fish nonsense.

[Towerroad]

From Donnie Webb's column at Syracuse.com before the game:

Cornell head coach Mike Schafer said the Harvard rivalry and the tradition of throwing fish at the Crimson is the kind of event that is special to college athletics. He said he understands how football games in the Southeastern Conference have their own special place in sports. But so does the Cornell-Harvard game.  "There's electricity in the building," Shafer said. "It just doesn't get any better."

----------------------------------------

From the Ithaca Journal after the game:

The annual tradition of showering the Crimson with aquatic life is permitted in pre-game festivities, but a warning was issued after it continued following a Big Red goal in the second period.  Referees Bob Ritchie and Kevin Graber stuck to their guns in the third, putting Cornell shorthanded to sack the hosts of any momentum they had built after equalizing a game with their most heated rival.

"The fans, they hurt us," Schafer said. "They wanted the tradition to live, but it absolutely killed us."

Sorry but this last quote is, pardon my French, BS. This season we have taken 100 more minutes of penalties than Yale, and 150 more than Union. That is the equivalent of playing 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down. Yeah, the fool that threw the bottle/fish caused a penalty but lack of discipline caused the loss. It is one thing to blame the refs but when the coach starts blaming the fans something is really wrong. I think you can just as easily blame yesterdays loss on the stupid hit after the 5 min major. Was that smart? Defending your team mate? A 5 min powerplay is the best way to avenge thuggish behavior.

Actually your math doesn't add up. 10 min penalties don't give PPs, just minutes. Here's the full IJ article. It shows that the team is in the middle third of the ECAC in terms of SH situations. I fully endorse him blaming the fans for hurting the team. The fans did hurt the team. It's happened before and will happen again, unless we stop the fish nonsense.

I am not sure it showed that at all it merely stated it as if it were a fact without data. The comparison I made was between the 2 best teams in the ECAC this year and Cornell. I merely note that there is a big gap between in PIM between these 2 teams and Cornell, a really big gap.

[Jim Hyla]

From Donnie Webb's column at Syracuse.com before the game:

Cornell head coach Mike Schafer said the Harvard rivalry and the tradition of throwing fish at the Crimson is the kind of event that is special to college athletics. He said he understands how football games in the Southeastern Conference have their own special place in sports. But so does the Cornell-Harvard game.  "There's electricity in the building," Shafer said. "It just doesn't get any better."

----------------------------------------

From the Ithaca Journal after the game:

The annual tradition of showering the Crimson with aquatic life is permitted in pre-game festivities, but a warning was issued after it continued following a Big Red goal in the second period.  Referees Bob Ritchie and Kevin Graber stuck to their guns in the third, putting Cornell shorthanded to sack the hosts of any momentum they had built after equalizing a game with their most heated rival.

"The fans, they hurt us," Schafer said. "They wanted the tradition to live, but it absolutely killed us."

Sorry but this last quote is, pardon my French, BS. This season we have taken 100 more minutes of penalties than Yale, and 150 more than Union. That is the equivalent of playing 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down. Yeah, the fool that threw the bottle/fish caused a penalty but lack of discipline caused the loss. It is one thing to blame the refs but when the coach starts blaming the fans something is really wrong. I think you can just as easily blame yesterdays loss on the stupid hit after the 5 min major. Was that smart? Defending your team mate? A 5 min powerplay is the best way to avenge thuggish behavior.

Actually your math doesn't add up. 10 min penalties don't give PPs, just minutes. Here's the full IJ article. It shows that the team is in the middle third of the ECAC in terms of SH situations. I fully endorse him blaming the fans for hurting the team. The fans did hurt the team. It's happened before and will happen again, unless we stop the fish nonsense.

I am not sure it showed that at all it merely stated it as if it were a fact without data. The comparison I made was between the 2 best teams in the ECAC this year and Cornell. I merely note that there is a big gap between in PIM between these 2 teams and Cornell, a really big gap.

So you don't believe Brandon's research? Well I do, so I guess we differ on that one. And you did say we had the equivalent of 1.5 to 2.5 games a man down compared to Yale and Union. That is just not true. Unfortunately whenever I try to get the Team Stats for 2010-11, the ECAC site gives me the 2009-10 stats, so I can't give you the actual number of PP differences, but I'll believe Brandon, Thank You.

[Scersk '97]

To add my two cents, I find it refreshing to see the team play with "an edge"—reminds me of the good ol' days of Stevie Wilson and Dan Dufresne.  Indeed, I've heard that there were folks in even earlier years—Olds, the Fergusons—who were not exactly Lady Byng candidates.  I prefer a couple of stupid penalties every once in a while to a team that seemingly has no get up and go.  At least this year's team seems to be able to turn it on when it needs to, and that might not be said of other (2006) teams.

That being said, the penalties I can't abide are those in which Mowrey and Nicholls seem to be specializing, the egregiously obvious retaliation penalties that negate or reduce a power play.  For the life of me, I can't understand why Mowrey hasn't sat more than he has.  Kid's a freshman; kid needs to learn.  And Nicholls?  Nicholls...  As far as I'm concerned, he's a liability—penalty-wise and skating-wise.  Last night's third goal notwithstanding, putting him on a line with Espo and Collins wastes Espo and Collins.  We looked fine at RPI...  I rest my case.

See, what those two need to learn is what Steve Wilson was so good at—how to go over, get involved in a little pushing, and get the other guy to retaliate stupidly.  And then skate away with a smile.

Brandon's discussion in the IJ is pretty well on:  we're picking up lots of minutes but only giving away about .5 chances per game.  But that number sticks in my craw.  Granted, last year's number was much the same, but this year's power play is not as good as last year's.  I just don't think we're good enough to play that game.  There's only one other year in recent memory ('05—I blame Hynes, who should have known better) besides these last two where we've been out-power-play-chanced.  Being out-power-play-chanced is a big part of why we've been being outshot, and that's also highly disturbing.

So, the boys need to put away their egos and win.  Or Schafer needs to bench Mowrey and Nicholls.  I don't care which.

[Trotsky]

I'm sure nobody is more frustrated than the players about last night.  They outplayed Harvard for large stretches, hit a crossbar and a post, and had a weak goalie seemingly at their mercy time and time again, but three different times they had to dig out of a hole, and the third time was just a bridge too far.

At the end of the day, if they win tonight they will be tied for third.  In the words of Annie Savoy, "it's a long season and you gotta trust it."

I think there is a lot of frustration going around. It looks to me like something is broken and the question is what will we do about it.

Fair point.

Dartmouth is coming off an equally bad loss to Colgate.  This could be a stressful night for all.

[billhoward]

The bench minor penalty appeared to come only after Dolt #3 / #4 tossed a newspaper and bottle on the ice. The refs seemed to ignore the 2 baby fish esp. when the Cornell players scooped them off the ice ... while the refs were at center ice pretending to believe there was no gambling at Rick's ... and only when the bottle came sailing down did they call the penalty. That's how I say it.

Schafer is saying, IMO: Hey, fish on the ice are a neat part of fan hijinks before the game and it's kind of a tradition. But once the game starts, back off.

Once funny, twice stupid.

[Towerroad]

I got the PIM number off each of the teams web sites. I may have misinterpreted the numbers but if I did please show me the errors of my way.

[Robb]

I got the PIM number off each of the teams web sites. I may have misinterpreted the numbers but if I did please show me the errors of my way.

The point is that PIMs include 10-minute misconducts, which don't actually put your team down a man.  Of course, they hurt you in the sense that the player is not available during those 10 minutes, but you don't necessarily play shorthanded.  If a team commits 20 2+10 penalties, that really doesn't hurt them that much more than committing 20 2-minute minors, so PIMs is not the right statistic to look at.  The right thing to look at is the number of times you're shorthanded, or better still, the total amount of time that you spend shorthanded.

[Towerroad]

Dig in to the numbers for Yale and Union.

[ftyuv]

I got the PIM number off each of the teams web sites. I may have misinterpreted the numbers but if I did please show me the errors of my way.

The point is that PIMs include 10-minute misconducts, which don't actually put your team down a man.  Of course, they hurt you in the sense that the player is not available during those 10 minutes, but you don't necessarily play shorthanded.  If a team commits 20 2+10 penalties, that really doesn't hurt them that much more than committing 20 2-minute minors, so PIMs is not the right statistic to look at.  The right thing to look at is the number of times you're shorthanded, or better still, the total amount of time that you spend shorthanded.

The whole system is broken! It's also stupid to represent your PK's success based on the number of PKs you beat, since a 5-second PK counts the same as a full 2 minutes. It should really be a stat like number of minutes of PK before you let in a goal. Similarly on PP.