Cornell "Suicide School" NPR Story

[Rita]

Good Morning,

Nothing like waking up to NPR and hearing about a story about Cornell, gorges and suicides. Here is the link to Thursday's 3/18/2010 NPR Morning Edition story on Cornell. I didn't realize that their were 6 deaths on campus this year. That is so sad.

[Willy '06]

You must have missed this Huffington Post article on the topic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-fishman/the-gorges-of-cornell-uni_b_498656.html

It's a fantastically well researched article on a very sad topic.

[Jacob '06]

An article about it made it in to the NY times yesterday also. I'm too lazy to hunt down the link.

[amerks127]

An article about it made it in to the NY times yesterday also. I'm too lazy to hunt down the link.

It was on the front page.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/education/17cornell.html?src=me&ref=homepage

[Rita]

You must have missed this Huffington Post article on the topic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-fishman/the-gorges-of-cornell-uni_b_498656.html

It's a fantastically well researched article on a very sad topic.

Thanks. It is a very good article.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

It even made it to the BBC webpage yesterday

[ugarte]

I think the sad answer is that the gorges are inhospitable to failed suicide attempts. Most suicide attempts are not successful but a long fall is one a pretty high-percentage way to go: once you get started, it is damn near impossible for anyone else to intervene or for you to change your mind. That's why the Golden Gate study is so interesting. The impulse to jump fades after people are stopped and most unsuccessful jumpers claim that they regret the decision as soon as they are free-falling.

[Josh '99]

You must have missed this Huffington Post article on the topic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-fishman/the-gorges-of-cornell-uni_b_498656.html

It's a fantastically well researched article on a very sad topic.

Fantastically well researched, to be sure, but spending all that ink recounting the history of suicides involving the gorges, "balanced" only a couple of throwaway mentions of the fact that the suicide rate at Cornell is commensurate with national averages, only serves to further spread the "suicide school" myth.  Metaezra's take is certainly worth a read.

[Willy '06]

Well the guy did write his thesis on the subject... at Columbia.

[mnagowski]

Well the guy did write his thesis on the subject... at Columbia.

To be fair, he is a Cornell alumnus, and probably one of the best opinion columnists the Sun has had in a long time.

Metaezra's take is certainly worth a read.

Thanks, Josh. For those interested I have added some recommendations today as to what Cornell can do to build a better sense of community on campus. Hopefully nobody will disagree with my last point.

http://www.metaezra.com/archive/2010/03/developing_a_community_sharing.shtml

[KeithK]

Thanks, Josh. For those interested I have added some recommendations today as to what Cornell can do to build a better sense of community on campus. Hopefully nobody will disagree with my last point.

http://www.metaezra.com/archive/2010/03/developing_a_community_sharing.shtml

I pretty much disagree with each of your suggestions, to varying degrees. (Well, except the last one. Duh.)
1) Require all underclassmen to live in the same dorm for freshman and sophomore years: I agree that having sophomores sta over can be a good thing.  My floor in Cascadilla had loads of sophomore holdovers both years and it definitely helped the sense of community. But this works best when the sophs choose to stay. What if you didn't get along with the folks on your dorm floor?  Why shouldn't you go elsewhere or get an apartment?  Or join a frat?  I generally prefer the choice.
2) Seriously consider changes to the academic calendar: Evening prelims can be longer and more comprehensive than in class exams, which serves a solid academic purpose. If profs stick to the Tuesday/Thursday schedule (assuming they still do) they're pretty easy to predict and shouldn't conflict much with extra-currics. I'd consider this a relatively minor disagreement; abolishing evening prelims wouldn't be a horrible thing but I don't really see the advantage either.
3) Develop a more common educational experience for all undergraduates. As an egineering student I disagree with this strongly. Unless you're going to have the common experience be a rigorous science/math focused curriculum it just doesn't work for engineers without going back to a five year program (not going to happen). On top of that, I just don't see the advantage of a common curriculum. Within a college maybe.
4) Increased focus on public engagement and hands-on service learning: I can't support a requirement for this kind of thing. If you want to go out and be involved then great. If you want to have an academic focused education then that's great too.

I feel more strongly about 3 and 4. (And 5. Duh!)

[mnagowski]

I feel more strongly about 3 and 4. (And 5. Duh!)

I think you read my points 3 and 4 too narrowly, and not as expansively as I had in mind.

For instance, with a core curriculum, I would want every student to required to take some classes in the humanities, mathematics, natural sciences, hard sciences, and social sciences. Engineers can still take calculus for engineers, but hotelies and architects should also be required to take a course in calculus and statistics. Likewise, engineers and biology majors should be required to take courses in English (Pynchon? Shakespeare? Austen?) and the social sciences.

Think of it as university-wide distribution requirements.

And with 4, I'm not suggesting that every student needs to scrub floors at the local food pantry, but that students should have field-appropriate, public-engagement minded, learning opportunities.

And that these opportunities can be integrated into the curriculum. Mechanical engineers might, for instance, take a course that revolves around improving safety in automobiles. English majors might take a course that studies the way that incarceration is portrayed in literature and work with local prison populations in helping them get their GED. Architects design a house for Habitat for Humanity, etc. Not certain what classic majors should do.

[Trotsky]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I worked for suicide prevention in Ithaca, the stats were that 90% of all suicides that had taken place on the Cornell campus (hello: gorges) were non-students.  The idea of a high suicide rate among the Cornell student body was pure myth.

[Roy 82]

I am certainly no expert on the topic but I have always felt that suicides among people who are not already "mentally ill" (e.g. depression) are very rare. Someone "normal" wouldn't jump off of a bridge because they flunked out or felt pressure.

Sure, creating a sense of community and reducing pressure could reduce the triggers that cause a mentally ill person to take his/her life and is probably a good dea in general. But shouldn't the number one thing to suggest be to screen for and treat existing disorders or encourage people who are suffering to get help?

I live in Palo Alto where there have been a number of teen suicides in the past two years that have been well publicized (they were by jumping in front of a commuter train). There is plenty of talk about too much pressure on kids to get int the best schools etc. But again, I feel that most of the students who took their lives were already suffering. In some cases, this is not known due to the wishes of the family. In other cases, the family chooses to reveal this fact in the hope that others can be helped.

I have a friend who suffers from depression and sometime speaks of suicide. Other friends make suggestions to him about getting out of the house more and trying to do fun things. But he explains that when he feels bad it is like a blackness that envelopes him and he simply can't go out and have fun. In other words, there is a real physical thing (chemical imbalance in the brain?) that is wrong and needs to be fixed. If I am not mistaken, we now know this to be true.

I view suicide as a fatal symptom of a disease. We should treat the disease first and foremost.

[mnagowski]

I view suicide as a fatal symptom of a disease. We should treat the disease first and foremost.

I agree. But the psychiatrist on NPR today said that Cornell's mental health programs set a 'gold standard' across the country. So I looked at possible second order effects.