"Fighting Sioux" nickname may [not] [may too] stick at N Dakota

[Weder]

NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff

The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.

[Trotsky]

Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

[Jim Hyla]

NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff

The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.

Maybe the Sioux minority doesn't think so.

[billhoward]

NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff

The NCAA setting standards for what is good, moral, and decent. Priceless.

[Jim Hyla]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

[KeithK]

Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?

[KeithK]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references".  There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive".  At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals.  They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

[CUontheslopes]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references".  There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive".  At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals.  They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

[Beeeej]

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals.  They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

I don't even remotely want a national title by forfeit.  Can you imagine the ranting and raving that would spew forth from fans of dozens of other schools during the umpteen years that would pass before we won another one legitimately?

[Rita]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

Gee, if I was sending out such an "official letter" I would proofread it a couple of times and make sure I got the names of the principal parties written and spelled correctly.  I would like to see Keith's scenario played out (but not at Cornell's expense).

[Dafatone]

I'm torn.  On one hand, I don't really think the logo/team name is that bad.  There's some ambiguity to exactly who "Sioux" refers to and all, but it could be worse.

On the other hand, enough bad things can't happen to Ralph Englestad's legacy.

[Roy 82]

Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?

You have a lot of Gaul making such a comment. :-D

On a more serious note, there are a fair number of folks here who think that if ND cannot get some sort of agreement with the Sioux tribes (yes, I know they have an agreement with one) then it is reasonable for them to stop using the name and logo. This action has little to do with the NCAA itself. They are just the "stick". Obviously, there are differing opinions in this forum. To help enlighten those who differ with me :-D I am looking for George Carlin's routine about what sports teams might be named if the Indians had won. No luck yet with Google and YouTube videos. Any pointers?

[Josh '99]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references".  There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive".  At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Well, there was the article quoted somewhere upthread where a tribal historian noted that the actual origin of the word "Sioux" was as a disparaging nickname for the [whatever it was that the tribe was originally called].  Didn't the article say it means "snake in the grass" or something like that?  It's there but I don't have time to hunt for it right now.  In any case, based on the fact that the term actually originated to disparage the native Americans so labeled, one could reasonably argue that its continued use is "hostile and abusive".  Like if Union's team was called the "Skating Sexual Deviants" or something like that.  (Though we all know that's actually BU.)

That being said, do I really think that's the basis of the NCAA's claim?  Doubtful.

[billhoward]

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references".  There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive".  At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals.  They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

Recompense for forforeiting that 1940s Fifth Down game to the Dartmouth, uh, what was their nickname?