"Fighting Sioux" nickname may [not] [may too] stick at N Dakota

[Josh '99]

The latest incident since the resumption of the nickname

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.  Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.

The Sioux tribe that supported the UND mascot name might disagree with you.

Yeah, I've sort of had second thoughts on this since typing my initial comment this morning.  In a vacuum I still don't think it's racist, and is even kinda funny (albeit in a lowbrow way, as Marty points out), though in the interest of full disclosure I should note that I think Duluth has a great group of fans (one of the best in the non-Lynah division) and so I'm perhaps predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't intend any offense toward actual Sioux.

That being said, hockey games are of course not played in a vacuum, and you have to reasonably assume that there will be native americans who will hear about this, and that their reaction will be something along the lines of "hey assholes - still not funny."

But then, taking it a step further, if you're the UND athletic department, don't you have to know that there's a reasonable possibility that this is going to happen if you stick with the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, and conclude that maybe you have some sort of responsibility to prevent it?  (This isn't blaming the victim, because UND isn't the victim.)

[KeithK]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

[RichH]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

Without answering the "is it racist" question, a group can get in trouble for it...

http://news.stanford.edu/news/1997/october15/irish.html

[Robb]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists.  Parody is turning stupidity against itself.  

Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A.  "That's not funny."

Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?

I agree.  

Most of my ancestors were English, but I don't hate the French for wanting to wipe them off the map 200 years ago. (I mean, not when there are so many REAL reasons to hate the French).  Just because A's ancestors did nasty things to B's ancestors doesn't mean that a joke about it means anything in the current world.

[jtwcornell91]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song

[Trotsky]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song

Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.

[Trotsky]

You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?

The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the opposite of racist.  I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.

Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

Because, "Hey Clarkson!   DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.

[Ben]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song

Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.

If they were in charge at Lynah, the students would be forced to sit down. They and the ECB are not interested in fans, just money. Fortunately (and unfortunately), they're somewhat incompetent.

[Jim Hyla]

You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?

The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the opposite of racist.  I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.

Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

Because, "Hey Clarkson!   DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.

If you read my follow up post, I said taunting was not what I was talking about, but racist or vulgar cheers. And I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist. And thanks for pointing out how I need to understand the difference, I needed that.::rolleyes::

[Trotsky]

And I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist.

I hereby declare you racist for mixing up the Sioux and the Ottawa.  They aren't all the same, you know...

[Josh '99]

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists.  Parody is turning stupidity against itself.  

Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A.  "That's not funny."

Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?

If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it.  It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

[Rosey]

If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it.  It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

[Beeeej]

If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it.  It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

I will throw in the obligatory "THIS."

[Rosey]

If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it.  It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

I will throw in the obligatory "THIS."

You go, girl!

[billhoward]

Four syllables yelled at the top of your lungs in a crowded arena lacks subtlety and nuance ("you see, it's irony, because it's white players wearing jerseys with an Indian logo, not Native Americans wearing the jerseys"). And if there's anyone who'd fail to see irony or reverse humor, it would be the student or faculty advisory board sitting in judgment of the alleged miscreants.  And it's only a game.