WCHA Expansion Moratorium Lifted

[Jim Hyla]

[quote ithacat][quote Josh '99][quote ithacat]Since Vermont's not coming back to the ECAC, maybe Hockey East & AHA trade Merrimack and UConn (women already play in HE) and then allow Quinny to join HE -- this leaves one HE spot open for the future program at Syracuse...the ECAC allows RIT to join...the WCHA allows Air Force and Bemidji State to join...the AHA allows Robert Morris, Niagara, and Alabama-Hunstville to join...[/quote]Why does Hockey East get Syracuse?  They're a much better geographical fit for the ECAC.[/quote]

True. Economics could also dictate where any future Syracuse program might align itself. Syracuse, however, dreams big when it comes to sports -- ECAC schools don't. Athletically, Syracuse has more in common with HE or CCHA schools than anyone in the ECAC. The reality, of course, would be that they would probably go to any conference willing to take them.

As of noon today, Syracuse had sold more than 29,000 tickets to its basketball game against Notre Dame on Saturday. Does that sound like an ECAC school? ;-)[/quote]

I don't know, does it sound like a HE school?

[KeithK]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote KeithK]And how about I schedule some more dates with rich supermodels and hot Hollywood actresses!
[/quote]
More?::woot::[/quote]
Hehe.  I was wondering if anyone would call bullshit on that.

[ithacat]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote ithacat][quote Josh '99][quote ithacat]Since Vermont's not coming back to the ECAC, maybe Hockey East & AHA trade Merrimack and UConn (women already play in HE) and then allow Quinny to join HE -- this leaves one HE spot open for the future program at Syracuse...the ECAC allows RIT to join...the WCHA allows Air Force and Bemidji State to join...the AHA allows Robert Morris, Niagara, and Alabama-Hunstville to join...[/quote]Why does Hockey East get Syracuse?  They're a much better geographical fit for the ECAC.[/quote]

True. Economics could also dictate where any future Syracuse program might align itself. Syracuse, however, dreams big when it comes to sports -- ECAC schools don't. Athletically, Syracuse has more in common with HE or CCHA schools than anyone in the ECAC. The reality, of course, would be that they would probably go to any conference willing to take them.

As of noon today, Syracuse had sold more than 29,000 tickets to its basketball game against Notre Dame on Saturday. Does that sound like an ECAC school? ;-)[/quote]

I don't know, does it sound like a HE school?[/quote]

It sure as heck doesn't sound like an ECAC school.

[Josh '99]

[quote ithacat][quote Jim Hyla][quote ithacat][quote Josh '99][quote ithacat]Since Vermont's not coming back to the ECAC, maybe Hockey East & AHA trade Merrimack and UConn (women already play in HE) and then allow Quinny to join HE -- this leaves one HE spot open for the future program at Syracuse...the ECAC allows RIT to join...the WCHA allows Air Force and Bemidji State to join...the AHA allows Robert Morris, Niagara, and Alabama-Hunstville to join...[/quote]Why does Hockey East get Syracuse?  They're a much better geographical fit for the ECAC.[/quote]

True. Economics could also dictate where any future Syracuse program might align itself. Syracuse, however, dreams big when it comes to sports -- ECAC schools don't. Athletically, Syracuse has more in common with HE or CCHA schools than anyone in the ECAC. The reality, of course, would be that they would probably go to any conference willing to take them.

As of noon today, Syracuse had sold more than 29,000 tickets to its basketball game against Notre Dame on Saturday. Does that sound like an ECAC school? ;-)[/quote]

I don't know, does it sound like a HE school?[/quote]

It sure as heck doesn't sound like an ECAC school.[/quote]If anything it sounds like a CCHA school, I suppose.

[Josh '99]

[quote KeithK]I see little reason to expect that Princeton would be better over the long haul than Niagara if both played in the same league, unless maybe you consider the head coaches (Gadowsky does seem pretty good).[/quote]I dunno....  I mean, if you're evaluating the future prospects of Princeton, you have to bear in mind that they've got that crazy financial aid situation where you're giving out tons of grants so that a lot of students aren't paying anything.  If they're offering a Princeton education accompanied by a financial commitment that's in the ballpark of a scholarship school, that's going to attract a lot of players.

[Oat]

[quote Josh '99][quote ithacat][quote Jim Hyla][quote ithacat][quote Josh '99]Why does Hockey East get Syracuse?  They're a much better geographical fit for the ECAC.[/quote]

True. Economics could also dictate where any future Syracuse program might align itself. Syracuse, however, dreams big when it comes to sports -- ECAC schools don't. Athletically, Syracuse has more in common with HE or CCHA schools than anyone in the ECAC. The reality, of course, would be that they would probably go to any conference willing to take them.

As of noon today, Syracuse had sold more than 29,000 tickets to its basketball game against Notre Dame on Saturday. Does that sound like an ECAC school? ;-)[/quote]

I don't know, does it sound like a HE school?[/quote]

It sure as heck doesn't sound like an ECAC school.[/quote]If anything it sounds like a CCHA school, I suppose.[/quote]

Sounds like a safety school to me..  ::whistle::

[Josh '99]

[quote Oat][quote Josh '99][quote ithacat][quote Jim Hyla][quote ithacat][quote Josh '99]Why does Hockey East get Syracuse?  They're a much better geographical fit for the ECAC.[/quote]

True. Economics could also dictate where any future Syracuse program might align itself. Syracuse, however, dreams big when it comes to sports -- ECAC schools don't. Athletically, Syracuse has more in common with HE or CCHA schools than anyone in the ECAC. The reality, of course, would be that they would probably go to any conference willing to take them.

As of noon today, Syracuse had sold more than 29,000 tickets to its basketball game against Notre Dame on Saturday. Does that sound like an ECAC school? ;-)[/quote]

I don't know, does it sound like a HE school?[/quote]

It sure as heck doesn't sound like an ECAC school.[/quote]If anything it sounds like a CCHA school, I suppose.[/quote]

Sounds like a safety school to me..  ::whistle::[/quote]Well jeez, that could be Hockey East or the CCHA or the WCHA or half of the ECAC!

[KeithK]

[quote Josh '99][quote KeithK]I see little reason to expect that Princeton would be better over the long haul than Niagara if both played in the same league, unless maybe you consider the head coaches (Gadowsky does seem pretty good).[/quote]I dunno....  I mean, if you're evaluating the future prospects of Princeton, you have to bear in mind that they've got that crazy financial aid situation where you're giving out tons of grants so that a lot of students aren't paying anything.  If they're offering a Princeton education accompanied by a financial commitment that's in the ballpark of a scholarship school, that's going to attract a lot of players.[/quote]
Good point.  The financial side might come out even there.  On the other hand, Princeton needs to find kids who can play hockey and handle high level academics so that limits the available talent pool.  Now Harvard has always managed to recruit enough players like this but they have a strong hockey tradition (even if they do, of course, suck).

[jy3]

it would be appropriate for niagara to join the ecac after we move out of buffalo

[Swampy]

[quote Scersk '97][quote CUontheslopes]
Niagara has never been good (a national power like us or dare I say Clarkson or more recently Princeton) nor do I see them being good in the future.... I'm completely against adding another bottom feeder to the conference.[/quote]

Other posters have dealt with other portions of what you've written, so I'll restrict myself to this part.

Do I want to add "another" bottom feeder?  (By the way, "another?"  Who was the first one?  The obvious answer is Union, but, as I wrote, that's a different situation entirely.)  No, I would never want to add a bottom feeder to the conference.

What we'll have to disagree on is whether Niagara would be a bottom feeder.  With the (perhaps a bit dubious) caché of ECAC membership, I think Niagara would attract better recruits and soon be a strong member.  Given the potential market (Niagara Falls and Buffalo) and Niagara's seeming commitment to "fielding" a scholarship squad, I think Niagara would be an excellent addition to the league.  If RIT were able to give scholarships, I think adding that adding them and Niagara would be a no-brainer.[/quote]

The issue ought not to be if they would be at the absolute bottom of the conference. Instead, the issue ought to be if, over the long run, they would be above or below the current average, thereby pulling the entire conference up or down. The ECAC needs a school like Colorado College -- strong hockey and academics -- in the northeast.

[nyc94]

[quote Josh '99]I dunno....  I mean, if you're evaluating the future prospects of Princeton, you have to bear in mind that they've got that crazy financial aid situation where you're giving out tons of grants so that a lot of students aren't paying anything.  If they're offering a Princeton education accompanied by a financial commitment that's in the ballpark of a scholarship school, that's going to attract a lot of players.[/quote]

I wonder how their endowment is doing.  Cornell's hit a little speed bump:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=996759268&play=1

[Scersk '97]

[quote Swampy]The issue ought not to be if they would be at the absolute bottom of the conference. Instead, the issue ought to be if, over the long run, they would be above or below the current average, thereby pulling the entire conference up or down.[/quote]

I agree, actually.  In the quality-of-hockey sense, I believe that Niagara would eventually be an above-average member. ( ::banana:: )

[quote Swampy]The ECAC needs a school like Colorado College -- strong hockey and academics -- in the northeast.[/quote]

Well, and I'd like BU and BC to come back to the league, but wishing isn't going to make it happen.  Amongst the schools who could be "available" in the future, RIT is the only one that fits the strong academics criterion.  As an engineering school, I think it also fits the "flavor" of the league. But they can't offer scholarships, and that decision by the D-III membership is unlikely to be revisited.  So, unless they take their whole athletic program D-I (which there was some talk about at some point), RIT will not satisfy the strong hockey criterion.

Looking through the D-III NESCAC and ECAC West, I don't see any schools that would fit the criteria and are likely to go D-I.

So, if we're going to help save these programs, who should we take?  Until the point when this magical school appears, I think taking in Niagara is worth it.

[Beeeej]

[quote nyc94][quote Josh '99]I dunno....  I mean, if you're evaluating the future prospects of Princeton, you have to bear in mind that they've got that crazy financial aid situation where you're giving out tons of grants so that a lot of students aren't paying anything.  If they're offering a Princeton education accompanied by a financial commitment that's in the ballpark of a scholarship school, that's going to attract a lot of players.[/quote]

I wonder how their endowment is doing.  Cornell's hit a little speed bump:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=996759268&play=1[/quote]

So did Princeton's:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/princeton_u_president_says_end.html

For that matter, so have the endowments of most educational institutions.  What's been happening the past several months is a bit beyond most managers' ability to hedge against.

[adamw]

[quote Chris '03][quote KeithK]Tangential question: does the CHA still have it's tournament autobid?  If it does, when will it go away?[/quote]

An unsourced comment on an USCHO thread said that recent NCAA legislation allows smaller sports (like hockey) to determine autobids independent of general criteria. If that's the case, the sport's leadership (tourney committee?) could award the bid year after year if it wanted. I'm certain they have the bid this year. I'm not sure where it stands beyond that. I'm guessing they're being strung along year by year though.[/quote]

That is not really true.

[adamw]

In reaction to what was said upthread ... just as a reminder ... no school is going to move conferences just because we think it's a good idea, or because it's convenient to some master scheme.  Teams will move if it's in their best interests, period.  So all talk of any team moving conferences in order to accommodate the grand plan, is pretty useless.

Shameless plugs:
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2009/01/17_commentary.php
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2008/11/14_commentary.php