Cornell in Pairwise and KRACH

[imafrshmn]

[quote RichH][quote sah67]Our four-point weekend over the Capital District squads is good enough for a one-spot bump from #11 to #10:

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/[/quote]

Having 4 Ivies getting votes (and 3 in the top 11) would have been unthinkable early in the decade.[/quote]

Can the Ivy teams' recent general success in the ECAC be traced to anything?  Have the last couple of years actually been unusual per the history of the league?  Has the balance of recruitment incentives changed (i.e., do the Ivies' financial aid packages rival athletic scholarships at the other schools)?

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote RichH][quote sah67]Our four-point weekend over the Capital District squads is good enough for a one-spot bump from #11 to #10:

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/[/quote]

Having 4 Ivies getting votes (and 3 in the top 11) would have been unthinkable early in the decade.[/quote]
I suspect it's still "unthinkable" to anyone from the world of western college hockey.

[Lauren '06]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote RichH][quote sah67]Our four-point weekend over the Capital District squads is good enough for a one-spot bump from #11 to #10:

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/[/quote]

Having 4 Ivies getting votes (and 3 in the top 11) would have been unthinkable early in the decade.[/quote]
I suspect it's still "unthinkable" to anyone from the world of western college hockey.[/quote]
Overheard at Engelstad:

"Cornell's ranked pretty high."
"Yeah, but they play, like, Bemidji.  And Harvard."
"Harvard?  Do they even have a team?"

Punchline: UND played at Harvard the following week.

[RichH]

[quote imafrshmn][quote RichH][quote sah67]Our four-point weekend over the Capital District squads is good enough for a one-spot bump from #11 to #10:

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/[/quote]

Having 4 Ivies getting votes (and 3 in the top 11) would have been unthinkable early in the decade.[/quote]

Can the Ivy teams' recent general success in the ECAC be traced to anything?  Have the last couple of years actually been unusual per the history of the league?  Has the balance of recruitment incentives changed (i.e., do the Ivies' financial aid packages rival athletic scholarships at the other schools)?[/quote]

Well, there are two Ivies with established pedigrees on the National level: Cornell and Harvard.  The inclusion of either of those two figures to be "business as usual."  

That leaves the success of Yale, Princeton, and Dartmouth to be the new developments.  What's happening that's different?  Frankly, at 13-11-3, we can't really call Dartmouth's season as being all that remarkable or even that good.  The fact that they're getting votes is probably due to voting-by-standings.  You get past the first couple teams in any conference, and you really get to mediocre meat quickly.  It's really a year for parity nationwide.

Yale and Princeton, however are a different story.  The one thing I think of that's common is that they both have coaches who are just getting their first fully self-recruited rosters in.  Gadowsky is in his 5th season, so this is really his first year where all four classes are his own recruits.  And as we know, Princeton was quite good last season.  Allain is finishing his 3rd season at Yale, and it looks like he's reaping the fruits of his own recruiting: 7 of Yale's top 10 in points are Freshmen or Sophomores.  Let's not forget that Allain is apparently good enough to have been an ass't coach on the last US Olympic Team.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to draw any institutional recruitment/acceptance/financial policy shift conclusions at those two schools.  But I'd say that the coaching moves a few years back had something to do with this recent success.

Brown has about one standout season each decade.  Other than that, it's excrement as usual.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote RichH]
I'm not knowledgeable enough to draw any institutional recruitment/acceptance/financial policy shift conclusions at those two schools.
[/quote]
Princeton and Harvard have significantly enriched their aid programs in recent years, as Noel and Schafer continue to point out to alumni donors in hockey and athletics publications.  Yale likely has as well, but I just don't recall reading anything specifically about it.

Note the date on this from the Stanford Daily: http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2004/4/14/harvardPrincetonAlterFinancialAidPolicy

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote RichH]
I'm not knowledgeable enough to draw any institutional recruitment/acceptance/financial policy shift conclusions at those two schools.
[/quote]
Princeton and Harvard have significantly enriched their aid programs in recent years, as Noel and Schafer continue to point out to alumni donors in hockey and athletics publications.  Yale likely has as well, but I just don't recall reading anything specifically about it.

Note the date on this from the Stanford Daily: http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2004/4/14/harvardPrincetonAlterFinancialAidPolicy[/quote]Unfortunately it won't open for me. They say temp unavailable.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Al DeFlorio][quote RichH]
I'm not knowledgeable enough to draw any institutional recruitment/acceptance/financial policy shift conclusions at those two schools.
[/quote]
Princeton and Harvard have significantly enriched their aid programs in recent years, as Noel and Schafer continue to point out to alumni donors in hockey and athletics publications.  Yale likely has as well, but I just don't recall reading anything specifically about it.

Note the date on this from the Stanford Daily: http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2004/4/14/harvardPrincetonAlterFinancialAidPolicy[/quote]Unfortunately it won't open for me. They say temp unavailable.[/quote]
I had to try twice to get it to open.  Just opened for me again now.

[lynah80]

The two major polls disagree more than usual this week:

USCHO Rankings  (USA today in parentheses):

1 Boston University (2)   
2 Notre Dame (1)      
3 Michigan (3)   
4 Northeastern (4)   
5 Denver (5)   
6 Princeton (6)   
7 Miami (9)   
8 North Dakota (7)
9 Vermont (   
10 Cornell (11)   
11 Yale   (12)    
12 New Hampshire (10)
13 Colorado College (13)
14 Minnesota-Duluth (14)
15 Ohio State (15)

Some of the disparity probably reflects different interpretations of (a) recent inconsistent play and (b) expectations about recovery from late season injuries.  

One important difference in the polls is BU and Notre Dame.  First place votes were:

USA Today

ND (18) BU (16)

USCHO

BU (31) ND (19)

BU was unable to defeat Northeastern last weekend and had to settle for two ties.  Notre Dame defeated Nebraska-Omaha (#30 rpi) twice (4-3 OT, 1-0).  Throughout the season they have had a much easier schedule (SOS. 1 vs 27). Their pairwise comparison:

BU/ND

rpi: 0.597/0.583
TUC: 0.738*/0.546
COP: 0.750/0.600

This weekend BU plays 2 games against UMass (#25), while ND plays 2 against Michigan St. (#35).

All things considered, I think Cornell would be better off in a bracket without BU in March.

*No other team in the NCAA has a TUC winning percentage above 0.600

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote lynah80]T
All things considered, I think Cornell would be better off in a bracket without BU in March.
[/quote]
No question.  Although, my impression is that Northeastern plays a somewhat similar style to Cornell's, and the Huskies pretty much held their own this past weekend against BU.  Bottom line, however, I think BU is a much tougher team than Notre Dame.

I'm still just hopin' we beat Yale on Friday.  I'll start worrying about brackets on March 22, when I'm sure we'll be in one of 'em.

[Trotsky]

[quote Al DeFlorio]I'm still just hopin' we beat Yale on Friday.  I'll start worrying about brackets on March 22, when I'm sure we'll be in one of 'em.[/quote]

Yeah, I just can't switch into NCAA mode until the winners skate in Albany, particularly this year when the ECAC Finals should be fascinating.  Yale, Princeton and Cornell are about equal as tri-favorites.  St. Lawrence is on fire.  Harvard's always tough (in conference play, though if we dressed as Merrimack we'd be sure to beat them).  Dartmouth is an unknown.

Frankly, who cares about the NCAAs right now?  The real meat of the Cornell season is here right now.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote Trotsky]Harvard's always tough (in conference play, though if we dressed as Merrimack we'd be sure to beat them). [/quote]
Maybe we can.  Do they wear pink and black?**]

[billhoward]

Story from 2004 said Stanford aid packages were better thant the Ivies'. No wonder, Stanford as of this past summer had $2 million in endowment per student, Prince has $1.6M, Yale and Harvard just over $1M, and Cornell Penn Brown Columnbia around $500K each. (Since has shrunk owing to the market.) So the richer Ivy schools can give more aid than the less rich and that helps Princeton, Harvard, Yale,

Athletic scholarship money isn't as much as some people think. Recall last year's NYT story on athletic aid. Even at a big time sports program eg Duke lax, only a couple get full rides and a let get half, quarter, eighth, or none. But it sounds as if Cornell on need based aid gives less than other schools to students in the some condition.

[upperdeck]

Lax doesnt give many full rides just because they offer so few scholies compared to the roster size.

[KeithK]

[quote upperdeck]Lax doesnt give many full rides just because they offer so few scholies compared to the roster size.[/quote]
What?  You mean lax doesn't get two scholrships per roster spot just like every oth....er, I mean, like football does?

[lynah80]

[quote Trotsky][quote Al DeFlorio]I'm still just hopin' we beat Yale on Friday.  I'll start worrying about brackets on March 22, when I'm sure we'll be in one of 'em.[/quote]

Yeah, I just can't switch into NCAA mode until the winners skate in Albany, particularly this year when the ECAC Finals should be fascinating.  Yale, Princeton and Cornell are about equal as tri-favorites.  St. Lawrence is on fire.  Harvard's always tough (in conference play, though if we dressed as Merrimack we'd be sure to beat them).  Dartmouth is an unknown.

Frankly, who cares about the NCAAs right now?  The real meat of the Cornell season is here right now.[/quote]

Okay.  I agree.