Wrestling wins Ivies

BillCharlton · February 23, 2008, 04:25:13 PM

Wrestling crushes Harvard 37 to 9 to clinch its sixth consecutive Ivy title. In the process, the team extended its Ivy dual meet winning streak to 33. Great job considering all the injuries.

Al DeFlorio · February 23, 2008, 04:32:36 PM

[quote BillCharlton]Wrestling crushes Harvard 37 to 9 to clinch its sixth consecutive Ivy title. In the process, the team extended its Ivy dual meet winning streak to 33. Great job considering all the injuries.[/quote]
Agree 100%, but, to be fair, Harvard's team was decimated by injuries this year as well.

BillCharlton · February 23, 2008, 11:46:39 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote BillCharlton]Wrestling crushes Harvard 37 to 9 to clinch its sixth consecutive Ivy title. In the process, the team extended its Ivy dual meet winning streak to 33. Great job considering all the injuries.[/quote]
Agree 100%, but, to be fair, Harvard's team was decimated by injuries this year as well.[/quote]

Al, I didn't realize that Harvard was missing as many as eight of its top ten wrestlers. That certainly explains their record. People who don't follow wrestling just don't understand how punishing it is. Considering the likelihood of getting injured in college wrestling, Cael Sanderson's 159-0 record and four NCAA titles at Iowa State is an almost miraculous feat. I consider Sanderson's accomplishments to be far more improbable than Villanova's upset of Georgetown in 1985.

Al DeFlorio · February 24, 2008, 07:35:53 AM

[quote BillCharlton][quote Al DeFlorio][quote BillCharlton]Wrestling crushes Harvard 37 to 9 to clinch its sixth consecutive Ivy title. In the process, the team extended its Ivy dual meet winning streak to 33. Great job considering all the injuries.[/quote]
Agree 100%, but, to be fair, Harvard's team was decimated by injuries this year as well.[/quote]

Al, I didn't realize that Harvard was missing as many as eight of its top ten wrestlers. That certainly explains their record. People who don't follow wrestling just don't understand how punishing it is. Considering the likelihood of getting injured in college wrestling, Cael Sanderson's 159-0 record and four NCAA titles at Iowa State is an almost miraculous feat. I consider Sanderson's accomplishments to be far more improbable than Villanova's upset of Georgetown in 1985.[/quote]
No argument on that from me, Bill. Brutal sport. Hats off to the guys who participate.

billhoward · February 24, 2008, 03:39:54 PM

[quote BillCharlton][quote Al DeFlorio][quote BillCharlton]Wrestling crushes Harvard 37 to 9 to clinch its sixth consecutive Ivy title. In the process, the team extended its Ivy dual meet winning streak to 33. Great job considering all the injuries.[/quote]
Agree 100%, but, to be fair, Harvard's team was decimated by injuries this year as well.[/quote]

Al, I didn't realize that Harvard was missing as many as eight of its top ten wrestlers. That certainly explains their record. People who don't follow wrestling just don't understand how punishing it is. Considering the likelihood of getting injured in college wrestling, Cael Sanderson's 159-0 record and four NCAA titles at Iowa State is an almost miraculous feat. I consider Sanderson's accomplishments to be far more improbable than Villanova's upset of Georgetown in 1985.[/quote]

Plus staph infections.

RichH · February 25, 2008, 04:37:54 PM

[quote BillCharlton]Considering the likelihood of getting injured in college wrestling, Cael Sanderson's 159-0 record and four NCAA titles at Iowa State is an almost miraculous feat. I consider Sanderson's accomplishments to be far more improbable than Villanova's upset of Georgetown in 1985.[/quote]

So what you're saying is that you think a 4-year undefeated streak having to constantly face some of the strongest competitors across the nation is more impressive (and improbable) than a single-game "any given night" one-and-done upset in a basketball tournament? Yeah, I think I can buy that. Big leap, there Bill. ;-)

We've already seen this year that going 19-0 in the NFL is very difficult. Sanderson's record is remarkable. I've also mentioned on this forum Trinity's squash streak, which celebrated the 10th anniversary of their last loss on Feb. 22. They also wrapped up their 10th straight national championship recently. It is the longest winning streak in collegiate sports history, in any sport. 183 and counting.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2932885
http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-jeffcol0218.artfeb18,0,3072134.column

Also, check out the fan t-shirt at 3:58 of the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rEMTE0AErk

Now having an undefeated, untied NCAA championship hockey team would be impressive. I wonder if anyone has ever done that? BTW, everytime I think of 29-0-0, a little part of me thinks about Maine's 1993 season and sticks out its tongue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Black_Bears_men's_hockey#Blemished_perfection

nyc94 · February 25, 2008, 04:52:19 PM

[quote RichH]BTW, everytime I think of 29-0-0, a little part of me thinks about Maine's 1993 season and sticks out its tongue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Black_Bears_men's_hockey#Blemished_perfection[/quote]

Quotein 1992-93 the Black Bears finished 42-1-2, which is the modern day's closest thing to perfection

1970 is not the modern era in college hockey? I think that article needs some editing.

Al DeFlorio · February 25, 2008, 04:56:27 PM

[quote nyc94]1970 is not the modern era in college hockey? I think that article needs some editing.[/quote]
Sheesh. The other day we learned anything pre-1985 was "pre-modern.":-P

ugarte · February 25, 2008, 05:00:20 PM

[quote RichH][quote BillCharlton]Considering the likelihood of getting injured in college wrestling, Cael Sanderson's 159-0 record and four NCAA titles at Iowa State is an almost miraculous feat. I consider Sanderson's accomplishments to be far more improbable than Villanova's upset of Georgetown in 1985.[/quote]

So what you're saying is that you think a 4-year undefeated streak having to constantly face some of the strongest competitors across the nation is more impressive (and improbable) than a single-game "any given night" one-and-done upset in a basketball tournament? Yeah, I think I can buy that. Big leap, there Bill. ;-)[/quote]
While I think Sanderson's record is the most impressive college sports accomplishment ever, Villanova's run through the tournament, culminating in the upset over G'town, is the better comparison. Nova wasn't supposed to be anywhere near that title game.

RichH · February 25, 2008, 05:04:47 PM

[quote ugarte]
While I think Sanderson's record is the most impressive college sports accomplishment ever, Villanova's run through the tournament, culminating in the upset over G'town, is the better comparison. Nova wasn't supposed to be anywhere near that title game.[/quote]

OK, that's a better point. How would George Mason's run compared to Villanova's had GM finished the job 2 years ago? Just to give some historical, comparative perspective?

ugarte · February 25, 2008, 05:14:58 PM

[quote RichH][quote ugarte]
While I think Sanderson's record is the most impressive college sports accomplishment ever, Villanova's run through the tournament, culminating in the upset over G'town, is the better comparison. Nova wasn't supposed to be anywhere near that title game.[/quote]

OK, that's a better point. How would George Mason's run compared to Villanova's had GM finished the job 2 years ago? Just to give some historical, comparative perspective?[/quote]
If George Mason won the national title, it would have made Villanova's title seem like another ho-hum Duke championship. LSU once made a final four run as a 12 or 13 seed, but Villanova and LSU are both big-conference schools - they have budgets and recruiting advantages that George Mason didn't have. No matter how often Bill Simmons abuses the analogy, the George Mason run was like watching Milan High in Hoosiers.

Still, a George Mason championship wouldn't compare with Sanderson's record because, well, there was a reason that GM was a 12 seed and it involved regular season losses to similarly seeded schools. GM played its best when it 'counted', but Sanderson actually was the best in all of his weight classes for his entire college career.

Jim Hyla · February 25, 2008, 05:24:13 PM

[quote ugarte][quote RichH][quote ugarte]
While I think Sanderson's record is the most impressive college sports accomplishment ever, Villanova's run through the tournament, culminating in the upset over G'town, is the better comparison. Nova wasn't supposed to be anywhere near that title game.[/quote]

OK, that's a better point. How would George Mason's run compared to Villanova's had GM finished the job 2 years ago? Just to give some historical, comparative perspective?[/quote]
If George Mason won the national title, it would have made Villanova's title seem like another ho-hum Duke championship.

Still, a George Mason championship wouldn't compare with Sanderson's record because, well, there was a reason that GM was a 12 seed and it involved regular season losses to similarly seeded schools. GM played its best when it 'counted', but Sanderson actually was the best in all of his weight classes for his entire college career.[/quote]

And to me the most important feature is that in a sport like wrestling, it's you and you alone. You can't have an off night and expect your teammates to cover you. Much more impressive, even than Trinity squash.

BillCharlton · February 25, 2008, 05:47:40 PM

[quote RichH]So what you're saying is that you think a 4-year undefeated streak having to constantly face some of the strongest competitors across the nation is more impressive (and improbable) than a single-game "any given night" one-and-done upset in a basketball tournament?[/quote]

No, I said it was far more improbable. The reason I used the Georgetown-Villanova comparison was that it is widely considered to be the biggest upset in NCAA tournament history. Also, what are the odds of shooting 79 percent for the game and 90 percent in the second half, and still only winning by two points?

A better comparison is Edwin Moses' streak of 122 wins (including 107 finals) in the 400 intermediate hurdles. I think Moses' feat is even more impressive than Sanderson's.

Scersk '97 · February 25, 2008, 11:20:15 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote nyc94]1970 is not the modern era in college hockey? I think that article needs some editing.[/quote]
Sheesh. The other day we learned anything pre-1985 was "pre-modern.":-P[/quote]

Perhaps my choice of words was unfortunate; "pre-split" might have been a better adjective. Yet, I will have to remind you that, while the "pre-split," or "pre-modern," era of the ECAC lasted for 23 years, we are now in the 24th year post-split. The ECAC has now been its diminished 12-team self for longer than it was something else. Hunh.

Al DeFlorio · February 26, 2008, 07:45:24 AM

[quote Scersk '97]Perhaps my choice of words was unfortunate; "pre-split" might have been a better adjective. Yet, I will have to remind you that, while the "pre-split," or "pre-modern," era of the ECAC lasted for 23 years, we are now in the 24th year post-split. The ECAC has now been its diminished 12-team self for longer than it was something else. Hunh.[/quote]
Scersk, I'm just having some fun with it. And you're right: It's been a long time.

I suppose it's natural to think that the "modern era" began with yourself. I'm still having trouble coming to grips with the tearing down of the "new" stadiums built in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and, now, Flushing Meadows--because I remember them being under construction. I'd guess most here view Ned Harkness the way I view Gil Dobie.