Weekend Not Yet a Sellout

[ftyuv]

[quote ithacat]
Yale 9-11
Princeton 9-12
Brown 10
Harvard 15-18
Denver 17-24
Cornell 18-21
Wisconsin 18-22 (18 gets you in the 3rd level)
BU 20
Michigan 22-28
North Dakota 22.50 (that seems pretty cheap for that building)
Minnesota 27 (that's for SRO)[/quote]

I'd be interested in seeing that list compared with a list of how much each school spends on athletics, and on hockey specifically.  (Then again, not so interested that I'm going to spend time on it ).  Of the schools you listed, Denver is the only one cheaper than Cornell which offers athletic scholarships, for instance.  What I'm getting at is that if Wisconsin spends twice as much money as Cornell does, and charges the same, then that means Cornell's actually being relatively greedy, which nudges them closer to that line of unreasonableness.

Also, I think I've said it before, but I'll say it now just in case:  Cornell is not a business!  They shouldn't be held accountable to stockholders, they should be held accountable to their community.  If they're hiking up ticket prices just so that Andy Noel can get a new car, or because the University won't give Athletics money because it feels each department needs to be self-sustaining, then I think that's wrong.  They should be interested less in profit and more in providing a good experience.  And for those who would argue pure economics, I'll fire back that pissing people off isn't a great way to get them donating money.  Not that I'll ever strike it rich, but if I did, I'd definitely be thinking about this kind of bullshit if Cornell came asking me for my money.

[Robb]

[quote ftyuv]
What I'm getting at is that if Wisconsin spends twice as much money as Cornell does, and charges the same, then that means Cornell's actually being relatively greedy, which nudges them closer to that line of unreasonableness.
[/quote]

Don't forget that Wisco's rink holds almost 3x as many as ours (meaning that both their expenses AND revenues are higher), so they may actually turn a greater profit with the same ticket prices - so who's greedier?

[KeithK]

[quote Omie]Your economics argument is so black and white many students are here because of financial aid and already have jobs to help pay for tuition while reducing the debt they will come out of college. You can be a great fan but if you work already to finance you education and need time to keep your studies up in many occasions there just simply enough time to fit in another job.

Basically your argument amounts to you are only a good fan if you can afford it or are willing to sacrifice your studies, which simply seems like BS to me.[/quote]I'm just saying that you've demonstrated through your choices that Cornell hockey isn't a priority.  OK, I can accept that there are probably some people on campus that are stretched so thin that they can't afford hockey tickets even though they desperately want to go. I never met anyone of this sort, but I'm sure there are a few. These people probably weren't going when tickets cost $150 though either.  It's really not that hard to find $100 extra over the course of a season if tickets are a priority. That's $5 per week, which is a few movies, a few sodas, a few beers sacrificed.

Don't read too much into this as a value judgement.  I'm not saying that I'm better than you because I would've paid the extra money even if I had to skimp and save elsewhere. I'm just saying that as prices increase you find out how much of a priority attending Cornell hockey games is to each fan. Everyone has their limiting "price". I would love to go to more games but the $300/game price (counting airfare, etc.) is too high under most circumstances.

By the way, I was on financial aid at Cornell too. I had loans. If an extra $100 of loans is going to kill you after graduation then you need to change your major :-P. (OK, now I'm just being snarky.)

[billhoward]

[quote KeithK][quote Ben Rocky 04]The stupid freakin' SA dropped their subsidy for tickets, causing stupid freakin' Andy Noel to up the price for undergrad hockey tickets, and make all other athletic events have entrance fees for undergrads.[/quote]Before the SA started putting up activity fee money hockey tickets were more expensive and other sports charged a fee. In this case the AD was just going back to the earlier system.

I don't disagree with you about sporting events have positive externalities.  We're not talking about a pro sports team that really only cares about profit. But the AD is supposed to be relatively self-supporting so revenue has to be a priority. Replacing one student sourced revenue stream (the activty fee) with another (ticket prices) isn't that unreasonable.

I guess I'll just take any excuse to call the SA stupid, just as everyone on this forum (including me) will take any excuse to call Andy Noel stupid.

That I can agree with.  The SA has pretty much always been a useless organization worthy of being called stupid.[/quote]

Here's something Cornellians of all decades can find agreement on: the usefulness of the SA (the Cornell one, not the German outfit) and its differently named predecessors vis a vis the athletics department. In general, there has been something of an arms-length mutual distaste of each for the other and if there's a way to screw the athletics department, student government will find a way. If the SA has done dumb things, the athletics department has done and said some dopey things, too (beyond failing to file on time). One former dean of athletics said of the SA or its predecessor, "It's unfair when your future is being determined by 18- and 19-year-olds." Referring of course to the SA kidz, not to Troy Davenport or Nathan Ford or Blake Gallagher or David LeNeveu or ...

Did Kafka write some of the script here: Season tickets are officially not available but there are hundreds of empty seats and beyond that some season ticket allotments haven't sold? The people who scripted this, thank goodness it's Lynah they're messing up, not the U.S. Congress or our supply to the troops in Iraq. Whether they should be in Iraq or not, I think they ought to have all the body armor and fragmentation grenades they ask for until we bring them home. "Sorry, Baker Company, you've used your allotment of TOW missiles as of the 25th, so you'll have to find a workaround until the 1st rolls around. Maybe we'll have some individual launchers available day of combat if you line up outside. Bring ID and no more than two per person."

[Omie]

First problem with all of your argument is that you are making judgements on me LOL

Come meet me on Section D row 7 ::whistle::

I think that the problem is that you are saying that if someone is not willing to dish out an extra $100 (which they need on the spot not over the year) he/she is not a fan. They are fans just fans that can't pay that amount.

[ithacat]

[quote ftyuv]And for those who would argue pure economics, I'll fire back that pissing people off isn't a great way to get them donating money.  Not that I'll ever strike it rich, but if I did, I'd definitely be thinking about this kind of bullshit if Cornell came asking me for my money.[/quote]

This was really just throwing the noodles against the wall and seeing what sticks...not that I ever did that.

Maybe if/when you strick it rich you can take a different approach. Give them money and stipulate how it's to be used. Help underwrite ticket prices, if you want. You'd be awfully popular.

I believe Peyton Manning recently gave a million to UTenn & it can only be used to improve the football stadium's wow-factor. I imagine Steve Belkin could build Cornell an amazing new hockey arena if he wanted to do so.

[ftyuv]

[quote ithacat][quote ftyuv]And for those who would argue pure economics, I'll fire back that pissing people off isn't a great way to get them donating money.  Not that I'll ever strike it rich, but if I did, I'd definitely be thinking about this kind of bullshit if Cornell came asking me for my money.[/quote]

This was really just throwing the noodles against the wall and seeing what sticks...not that I ever did that.

Maybe if/when you strike it rich you can take a different approach. Give them money and stipulate how it's to be used. Help underwrite ticket prices, if you want. You'd be awfully popular.[/quote]

Well, I'd be more likely to do that if the University hadn't pissed me off time and again.  If it's true that money is the only thing the University listens to, then as far as I'm concerned, they're just a corporation.  That's fine, but I've never donated money to Honda -- if Cornell wants my handouts, they're going to have to convince me they're more than a for-profit corp.  As it stands, they haven't convinced me of that, so I feel no obligation to give them a dime more than the agreed-upon price for the agreed-upon services they provided.

[nyc94]

[quote ftyuv][quote ithacat][quote ftyuv]And for those who would argue pure economics, I'll fire back that pissing people off isn't a great way to get them donating money.  Not that I'll ever strike it rich, but if I did, I'd definitely be thinking about this kind of bullshit if Cornell came asking me for my money.[/quote]

This was really just throwing the noodles against the wall and seeing what sticks...not that I ever did that.

Maybe if/when you strike it rich you can take a different approach. Give them money and stipulate how it's to be used. Help underwrite ticket prices, if you want. You'd be awfully popular.[/quote]

Well, I'd be more likely to do that if the University hadn't pissed me off time and again.  If it's true that money is the only thing the University listens to, then as far as I'm concerned, they're just a corporation.  That's fine, but I've never donated money to Honda -- if Cornell wants my handouts, they're going to have to convince me they're more than a for-profit corp.  As it stands, they haven't convinced me of that, so I feel no obligation to give them a dime more than the agreed-upon price for the agreed-upon services they provided.[/quote]

I don't want to pick a fight but if the athletics department's choice of technology partner is the deciding factor in whether you make a contribution to an academic institution. . . well, maybe you need to rethink this.  Make a gift and direct it to something better like the library or the college or department you received your degree from or financial aid.

[ftyuv]

[quote nyc94][quote ftyuv][quote ithacat]

Maybe if/when you strike it rich you can take a different approach. Give them money and stipulate how it's to be used. Help underwrite ticket prices, if you want. You'd be awfully popular.[/quote]

Well, I'd be more likely to do that if the University hadn't pissed me off time and again.  If it's true that money is the only thing the University listens to, then as far as I'm concerned, they're just a corporation.  That's fine, but I've never donated money to Honda -- if Cornell wants my handouts, they're going to have to convince me they're more than a for-profit corp.  As it stands, they haven't convinced me of that, so I feel no obligation to give them a dime more than the agreed-upon price for the agreed-upon services they provided.[/quote]

I don't want to pick a fight but if the athletics department's choice of technology partner is the deciding factor in whether you make a contribution to an academic institution. . . well, maybe you need to rethink this.  Make a gift and direct it to something better like the library or the college or department you received your degree from or financial aid.[/quote]

Well first, just to make it clear, this isn't about CSTV.  My guess is that CSTV has Cornell by the balls, so I blame what I understand is a craptacular product on CSTV, not Cornell.  My issue with CU Athletics is stupid stuff like "forgetting" to file for SAFC funds and therefore having to charge for other athletic events, or hiking up ticket prices so outrageously in one year.  My issues with the University as a whole are broader, but can mostly be tied with the common theme of the administration not caring what its students, faculty or city members think.

As for donating to the library or other academic departments, with due respect to the few really good profs I had, I consider most of my academics at Cornell pretty much worthless.  The most engaging and informative class I took in my college career was during a study abroad program.  You could of course make the argument that if I'm displeased with the University, I should help make it better.  At this point, though, I'm much more likely to help shore up my state's public university, so that future generations will be more likely to go there instead of Cornell or other private schools.

Anyway, to underscore what I meant to be my original argument:  Cornell needs to decide whether it's a corporation or not.  If it isn't, it shouldn't try to hike tickets prices up to whatever the market will bear.  If it is, it shouldn't expect me to give it extra money.

[nyc94]

In the years the student activity fee subsidized athletic tickets did they hike the fee or did the student clubs get far less money?

[gatitita '05]

join the band.  or run around on the ice collecting newspaper.

[ithacat]

[quote ftyuv]Well, I'd be more likely to do that if the University hadn't pissed me off time and again.  If it's true that money is the only thing the University listens to, then as far as I'm concerned, they're just a corporation.  That's fine, but I've never donated money to Honda -- if Cornell wants my handouts, they're going to have to convince me they're more than a for-profit corp.  As it stands, they haven't convinced me of that, so I feel no obligation to give them a dime more than the agreed-upon price for the agreed-upon services they provided.[/quote]

It's unfortunate you've had such a disappointing experience at Cornell. It sounds like you could have saved yourself a lot of money and exasperation if you had gone to one of NY's fine public schools (other than its land-grant).

As for Honda, their hockey team sucks and their diplomas are worthless (or so I'm told). ;-)

[ftyuv]

Well, I'm a MA resident, but yeah...

[Will]

[quote ftyuv]Well, I'm a MA resident, but yeah...[/quote]

Think of it this way.  You could have gone to UMass-Lowell, who hasn't been to the NCAAs since 1996, or you could have gone to UMass-Amherst, who has never been to the NCAAs at all.

Say what you will about Cornell.  At least we get to go to the big dance on a regular basis. :-D

[ftyuv]

Maybe I'll donate my millions to UMass Boston, stipulating that they change their colors to red and white and spend at least 95% of my donation on hockey