Reminder - Hockey Ticket Preregistration

[ebilmes]

[quote imafrshmn]In case anyone was wondering, the drawing method was not perfectly fair.  The total number of entries in the undergrad line was 1674.  They chose the starting number digit by digit.  This would have been fair if there were 1999 entries.  However, when there should have been a greater chance of starting the line with a number below 1000 than above, their system gave both numbers a 50% chance (they were basically pulling numbers from a hat, it seemed).  So, the starting number was higher than it should have been in a random system.  The result of all this is that the line numbers in the low 1000's were at a disadvantage to "win", while those with numbers in the low 0---'s were at a bit of an advantage.  If anyone knows how to calculate the exact degree of the effects of the drawing system on selection probabilities, that would be interesting.[/quote]

Did they do the actual drawing at the game, or were the slips of paper just what they had written down after drawing the number earlier? If they had drawn them earlier, then perhaps they did it the mathematically precise way?

[imafrshmn]

[quote ebilmes][quote imafrshmn]In case anyone was wondering, the drawing method was not perfectly fair.  The total number of entries in the undergrad line was 1674.  They chose the starting number digit by digit.  This would have been fair if there were 1999 entries.  However, when there should have been a greater chance of starting the line with a number below 1000 than above, their system gave both numbers a 50% chance (they were basically pulling numbers from a hat, it seemed).  So, the starting number was higher than it should have been in a random system.  The result of all this is that the line numbers in the low 1000's were at a disadvantage to "win", while those with numbers in the low 0---'s were at a bit of an advantage.  If anyone knows how to calculate the exact degree of the effects of the drawing system on selection probabilities, that would be interesting.[/quote]

Did they do the actual drawing at the game, or were the slips of paper just what they had written down after drawing the number earlier? If they had drawn them earlier, then perhaps they did it the mathematically precise way?[/quote]

The drawing was done live from the press booth during halftime.

[las224]

To answer my own question from earlier...

"Graduate/professional seats are in sections B, D and G; undergraduate seats are in sections A, B, D, E, and F."

However... does this mean if I have one grad number in section B and an undergrad number in section B, we can get seats together? Or are grads blocked off even further? I know that in the past you can just jump around in a section, but with the renovations, is that going to be possible?

[ugarte]

[quote krose]The capitalist over here is laughing. **]

If they would only price the tickets so supply=demand, then the most dedicated fans would find a way to pay for them and there would be a lot fewer facetimers.[/quote]
You are conflating "most dedicated" with "most access to their parents' wallets." A description of how Cornell can maximize intake is not the same as how to measure dedication to the team. A billionaire dilettante is not more dedicated than a junior  who wastes his work-study income on something silly like, say, books. Or food.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote ugarte][quote krose]The capitalist over here is laughing. **]

If they would only price the tickets so supply=demand, then the most dedicated fans would find a way to pay for them and there would be a lot fewer facetimers.[/quote]
You are conflating "most dedicated" with "most access to their parents' wallets." A description of how Cornell can maximize intake is not the same as how to measure dedication to the team. A billionaire dilettante is not more dedicated than a junior  who wastes his work-study income on something silly like, say, books. Or food.[/quote]

Agreed. Its not that the most dedicated fans would find a way to go, its those that have the most access to money.

I knew an incredibly dedicated Cornell hockey fan during my years on the hill, and she was working two jobs in order to pay for her education. I don't think her 'dedication' was measured by the cash she had in her wallet.

Yes, it would be *a* solution to the problem, but it is not one that would find the most dedicated fans, it would combine that factor with the amount of cash in your wallet. Yes, the free market always has a efficient solution to every problem, but don't pretend that it has anything to do with social standards or moral results.

[Rosey]

[quote ugarte]You are conflating "most dedicated" with "most access to their parents' wallets." A description of how Cornell can maximize intake is not the same as how to measure dedication to the team. A billionaire dilettante is not more dedicated than a junior  who wastes his work-study income on something silly like, say, books. Or food.[/quote]
Even at Cornell, there simply aren't that many of them.  Of course some rich kids would get their parents to foot a (say) $500 bill for hockey tickets.  But many of them would say, "Are you nuts?  I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks for frivolous stuff."  OTOH, any student at Cornell has the ability to get $500 over the course of a single year for hockey tickets: it's simply a matter of how dedicated that person is and how much he or she is willing to sacrifice for that.

Only politically well-connected people can skew a random lottery to favor their own line number, or get tickets through an alternate channel that the plebes don't have access to.  Money is much more egalitarian than power or influence, even though some people do have access to more of it than do others.

So, which would you have preferred as an undergrad, Charles?  A lottery with a 25% chance of locking you out, or an extra few hours per week of work to make enough money to guarantee yourself seats?  Of course I think we'd all prefer a week-long line with only one bathroom break per day and gruel as the only meal available; but since the administration simply isn't going to do that, tell us what bad effects you are happy with among the feasible solutions.

BTW, as I've stated here before, I was one of those undergrads without much money, but I made the sacrifice to pay for hockey tickets at $125, yet I would have at $500 or $1000, too: it was important enough to me to justify the extra work.

Cheers,
Kyle

[Rosey]

[quote DeltaOne81]Yes, the free market always has a efficient solution to every problem, but don't pretend that it has anything to do with social standards or moral results.[/quote]
Can you describe to me what the single, universal standard for equitable distribution of hockey tickets (without the week-long line or general admission per game) would be?  That's an easier question than "What do you think universal 'social standards' should be, and who should choose them?", which I'd also like to ask.

The market is amoral.  That doesn't mean immoral, just amoral: it makes no moral judgments one way or the other.

Cheers,
Kyle

[ftyuv]

But what if someone's already working a lot for work study, books, etc, and in addition wants to take a heavy course load?  I don't think you should force them into a situation where they have to chose which they're more dedicated to, hockey or school work. Yes, a purely capitalist system could in the strictest sense benefit those who are most dedicated, but it would do so at the expense of those who are very highly dedicated but also have a sense of priority.

Also, I think your argument "this isn't ideal, but they're not doing the ideal so why not this instead" is faulty.  They're not doing your system, either.  What we're [probably wasting our time by] discussing is what we think they should do, knowing that it's not what they have done.

[French Rage]

[quote DeltaOne81][quote ugarte][quote krose]The capitalist over here is laughing. **]

If they would only price the tickets so supply=demand, then the most dedicated fans would find a way to pay for them and there would be a lot fewer facetimers.[/quote]
You are conflating "most dedicated" with "most access to their parents' wallets." A description of how Cornell can maximize intake is not the same as how to measure dedication to the team. A billionaire dilettante is not more dedicated than a junior  who wastes his work-study income on something silly like, say, books. Or food.[/quote]

Agreed. Its not that the most dedicated fans would find a way to go, its those that have the most access to money.

I knew an incredibly dedicated Cornell hockey fan during my years on the hill, and she was working two jobs in order to pay for her education. I don't think her 'dedication' was measured by the cash she had in her wallet.

Yes, it would be *a* solution to the problem, but it is not one that would find the most dedicated fans, it would combine that factor with the amount of cash in your wallet. Yes, the free market always has a efficient solution to every problem, but don't pretend that it has anything to do with social standards or moral results.[/quote]

Seriously.  The last thing we need a system that gaurantees the rink is filled with a bunch of spoiled Long Island facetimers who spend all their time on their cell phones and who get the money from daddy after he skims some money from his law firm or car dealership.

[Rosey]

[quote ftyuv]Also, I think your argument "this isn't ideal, but they're not doing the ideal so why not this instead" is faulty.  They're not doing your system, either.[/quote]
Right, but my system nets them more money, which makes them at least somewhat likely to adopt it. ;-)

Kyle

[Rosey]

[quote French Rage]Seriously.  The last thing we need a system that gaurantees the rink is filled with a bunch of spoiled Long Island facetimers who spend all their time on their cell phones and who get the money from daddy after he skims some money from his law firm or car dealership.[/quote]
So instead, you have a system where some of the most dedicated fans are guaranteed to be locked out, and the rink is still loaded with facetimers.  Congratulations: you win. ::nut::

Kyle

[French Rage]

[quote krose][quote French Rage]Seriously.  The last thing we need a system that gaurantees the rink is filled with a bunch of spoiled Long Island facetimers who spend all their time on their cell phones and who get the money from daddy after he skims some money from his law firm or car dealership.[/quote]
So instead, you have a system where some of the most dedicated fans are guaranteed to be locked out, and the rink is still loaded with facetimers.  Congratulations: you win. ::nut::

Kyle[/quote]

Nah, both suck.  The best is to let people line up when they want.  Which, of course, will never happen, and thus is pointless to mention.

[Liz '05]

[quote las224]To answer my own question from earlier...

"Graduate/professional seats are in sections B, D and G; undergraduate seats are in sections A, B, D, E, and F."

However... does this mean if I have one grad number in section B and an undergrad number in section B, we can get seats together? Or are grads blocked off even further? I know that in the past you can just jump around in a section, but with the renovations, is that going to be possible?[/quote]

I believe they have, in previous years, had a two seat strip along the B/C aisle, so you should be able to get grad tickets and undergrad tickets next to each other with a little luck and strategy.  I don't know if they are using that system this year.

[Cactus12]

There are plenty of real hockey fans on Long Island too. (Just for the sake of clarity).



NYR in 07!

[cth95]

$500?!!  You think that any student could pay that much for hockey tickets?  Granted it was 10 years ago, but I worked 70 hours/week over Christmas break and during each summer as well as around 30 hours/week during school just so I could make my car, insurance, and rent payments and still be able to buy some groceries.  I could barely afford $100 tickets at the time.  I know I was certainly not in the majority of Cornell students with this situation, but considering I am on elynah now more than 10 years after I graduated I think it is safe to say I am a good fan.

My point isn't that the tickets aren't worth that much.  I just agree that it takes a lot more than money to define true fans.  Unfortunately, I also agree that things that will bring out better fans like longer lines or even a quiz for ticket number priority will probably never happen.

Instead of constantly complaining about "facetimers", which I don't think there are as many as some of you claim, why don't you guys try to think of ways to get them into the sport and the team without sounding too much like you are preaching to them or forcing them to think like you do?