the official line idea thread

[DeltaOne81]

It was proposed on the other thread that we try to organize our ideas and see if we can come to a consensus at to what should work. If we can come up with something reasonable, perhaps we can lend a voice to it.

These threads can get way out of hand, so I'd like to see if we can possible try to keep this one fairly focused - try your very best

I've read the ideas in the other thread so far and have formed a bit of an opinion (me? no!). I'm wondering if we can share thoughts and maybe come to a reasonable consensus. And then figure out if we can write an open letter or something. Perhaps if someone here works of the Sun, we can see if we can get a space equivalent to what Andy Noel got - not because we need to explicitly contradict him, but just as another party. Maybe I could even be convinced to write it, we'll see.

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So, here are my thoughts.

I really see no problem with a long term line, with no line checks during school hours (or prelim hours). Seriously, what's wrong with that? I'm open to comments, but I fail to see a problem at the moment.

You come to the athletic ticket office to get your line number, anytime starting, say, June 1st - alright, how about September 1st, don't want to disadvantage students with summer jobs. From then on, you have to camp *outside* behind the fieldhouse, or somewhere. Line checks will be performed randomly between the hours of 6 pm and 5 am (usually giving people a break in the middle of the night, but no promises) on weekdays. They don't even need to do a check every night - Andy or Gene, or a member of the CUPD, or a newbie in the athletics department that they want to 'haze' ;-), can just show up randomly every two to three nights. And you don't need to police the line because the numbers are handed out immediately when you get there - so no cutting - and not initial rush, so no cutting to get numbers.

The students need to be treated like adults. They have to make their own decisions. If they're given enough credit to be allowed to decide to go to class or sleep in, go to class or wait in a ticket line for Jon Stewart, and to bother to do homework or to chose to skip an assignment, then they have to be given enough credit.

Unless it turns out that 1000+ students show up at 8 am (10 am?) on September 1st. Then I give up . And the other option should be general admission (although I have concerns about that for the Harvard game) or a lottery ala the late 90s.

[ben03]

I haven’t read through all the other “line" threads … is there a reason they couldn’t have a line and a GA student section? Maybe Athletics could use the above-mentioned logistics but substituted a seat number for a coupon book of GA tickets (ala “the older days” mention by JH ’82 in another thread).

[Tub(a)]

1. Announcement is made anytime soon that tickets next year will be sold at 6am the Wednesday after Fall Break.

2. Any line before 5pm the Friday before Fall Break will not be monitored and is attended at your own risk. (Cornell is not liable for any damages resulting from line).

3. Starting at 5pm Friday, police and volunteers will patrol the line and ensure that there is no cutting. Line numbers will not be issued.

4. Tickets will be sold starting at 6am on Wednesday.

5. The ticket will entitle the holder to General Admission to a specific section for each home hockey game. The section will be labelled on the ticket. One ticket per person.

GAME NIGHTS:

1. Doors open at 5pm.

2. Ushers collect ticket from student and stamp the corresponding letter on the student's hand. Ushers at the top of each section will check the stub and the stamp before allowing student entrance to the section.

3. To return to the section, students must have a stamp and a stub.

[Will]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:

Line checks will be performed randomly between the hours of 6 pm and 5 am (usually giving people a break in the middle of the night, but no promises) on weekdays.[/q]

I would just amend this to take into account both evening prelims (a problem for Tuesdays and Thursdays) and night classes/labs (I'm guessing that might affect Mondays through Thursdays).  The latter probably won't impact a lot of people, but you just know somebody is bound to make a stink about it.

[nr53]

I like the idea of selling general admission tickets instead of assigned seats. It would definitely give people a reason to show up early rather than just on time (or... dare i say late). It would also relieve the initial rush because your place in line wouldn't determine your seat. The uncertainty of what seat you would get would also keep out some of the people who care only be cause everyone else cares. Your number would become less of a status thing and the people who really wanted to be at the games would get the best seats. This will probably annoy some people who like to have *their* seat but hey, you want it you come early enough to claim it.

as for getting the line numbers, I don't have much of a problem with last years version of the line. semi-obscure location in an open area is a definite plus but the fact that everyone should be arriving from the same direction really limits it to somewhere at or beyond the ag quad. there's nothing wrong w/ having the whole paper-signing thing in bartels but it shouldn't be anywhere near where the tickets are being distributed. One of the problems mentioned was that those volunteers were in the process of setting up their tables when people were coming in to sign forms. Having this done in a different location would give a ~5 minute window after the first number is claimed for them to set up and be ready for the flood of people. I guess i'm really not saying anything new, just pick the location of # distribution a bit better and keep the process spread out so you don't have to hold up one part for another thats lagging behind.

[DeltaOne81]

It's possible to do the above resulting in a GA ticket

Pluses:
1) Students show up to games earlier - but does athletics really care? Well, Schafer does, so maybe they do a little
2) It would reduce competition to get the the line early since you're only getting a GA ticket anyway

Minuses:
1) Wouldn't this just create the same mess before big games? Particularly Harvard? I mean, you'd have people lining up unmonitored for days before the Harvard games, with cutting and perhaps pushing all the same. The *only* issue I have with GA is it would seem to bring all the problems we've had in the past couple years and move them to the Harvard game. If it wasn't for that, I'd be cool with it. Can someone explain this away for me?

2) Two above may not really be a plus if we've avoided the problem anyway. In fact, it could make it worse. No one would really want to be the first to get a ticket, but neither do they want to be left out, so it may 'compress' the group back to the end of the time period, just before tickets are actually sold.


Tub(a), that seems like an awfully complex system, and an unmonitored line seems like it just puts us back where we started. Is there any compelling reason that I'm missing to ruin student's break and risk an unmonitored line? Sure, no explict university liability, but we want this to work smoothly in addition to be acceptable to the powers-that-be.

[Beeeej]

You think people who already have tickets to sit in a particular section at the Harvard game would line up for days in advance just to make sure they get the row they want in that section?  Or am I misunderstanding the question or the premise?

Beeeej

[Tub(a)]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:

Tub(a), that seems like an awfully complex system, and an unmonitored line seems like it just puts us back where we started. Is there any compelling reason that I'm missing to ruin student's break and risk an unmonitored line? Sure, no explict university liability, but we want this to work smoothly in addition to be acceptable to the powers-that-be.[/q]

It's not complex at all. It's a much simpler line for a slightly more complicated process game day.

The line is monitored for 5 full days. There will be less desire to get in line early because you are only competing for a GA ticket to a particular section, not a particular seat. Very few people will want to line up before Friday, and if they do they are not guaranteed their position in line.

Athletics will not use any system that jeopardizes academics in any way. A system that requires people to be in a line everyday for 12 hours for any extended period of time will never be accepted.

It doesn't have to happen over fall break, but that time period is the longest without an academic commitment. It could happen on any weeked, with the line starting at 5pm on Friday and ending 6am on Monday. Doing it over Fall Break ensures that the most dedicated fans get tickets to Lynah.

[DeltaOne81]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 You think people who already have tickets to sit in a particular section at the Harvard game would line up for days in advance just to make sure they get the row they want in that section?  Or am I misunderstanding the question or the premise?

Beeeej[/q]

Good point, I wasn't completely thinking clearly.

You know, I think a GA line could be a good idea. Yeah, yeah, I do like it Should severly cut down on early appearances and lining up, and it would reward the more committed fans on game nights.

The only con I see of having the section on the GA ticket (I definitey see the pros - makes game night much easier and avoids overcrowding a section) is that it would reinstitute at least part of the demand for showing up early to the line. Afterall, people don't really show up early to get a seat, they do it to get a section. So would we really be cutting down on the early demand at all?

Now if you did pure GA, then the line problem would be solved. But game night would be a hassle.

I'll toss this out there: what about a pure GA ticket, to solve the line problem fairly conclusively. And when you enter Lynah on game night, you get a section ticket (and possibly stamp) at that time. So you limit the number per section by the physical tickets from the ushers on game night, but avoid the rush.

Thoughts, comments, alternatives?

[Tub(a)]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:

 [Q2]Beeeej Wrote:

 You think people who already have tickets to sit in a particular section at the Harvard game would line up for days in advance just to make sure they get the row they want in that section?  Or am I misunderstanding the question or the premise?

Beeeej[/Q]

I'll toss this out there: what about a pure GA ticket, to solve the line problem fairly conclusively. And when you enter Lynah on game night, you get a section ticket (and possibly stamp) at that time. So you limit the number per section by the physical tickets from the ushers on game night, but avoid the rush.

Thoughts, comments, alternatives?[/q]

You want to shift as little of the line to game night as possible. A pure GA ticket would create a 2000 person line every Friday and Saturday, and there would be no cohesion in the section as the people would change every game.

You need to stike a balance between game night line and ticket line in a GA system and selling tickets to a specific section seems to be the best way to do it.

[cmf46]

Since Cornell is an "academic institution" I was wondering about instituting a hockey test before the beginning of the season. This could be easily administered on a Saturday night. The idea would be to give tickets out in a fashion that rewarded those who knew the most about Hockey and Cornell Hockey in particular. This test would be multiple choice questions and could be easily scanned and rank students for general admission tickets based on their performance on the test. The test would have four sections. 1. Hockey Rules  2. Cornell Hockey History and Present Players 3. Knowledge about Cornell Hockey Opponents for upcoming year 4. Knowledge about College Hockey in general. This test would help to eliminate the annoying sorority girl or freshman who doesn't understand why the play stopped when the puck was iced or who doesnt know what Hockey East is. I think the idea would help to make Cornell hockey fans the most knowledgable in the country. If we arent already. If this idea is too stupid I also like the idea of having the line form over Fall Break.

[Beeeej]

That's an awful, awful idea, but the thought of it actually coming to pass amuses the hell out of me.  ::laugh::

Beeeej

[jy3]

[Q]cmf46 Wrote:

 Since Cornell is an "academic institution" I was wondering about instituting a hockey test before the beginning of the season. This could be easily administered on a Saturday night. The idea would be to give tickets out in a fashion that rewarded those who knew the most about Hockey and Cornell Hockey in particular. This test would be multiple choice questions and could be easily scanned and rank students for general admission tickets based on their performance on the test. The test would have four sections. 1. Hockey Rules  2. Cornell Hockey History and Present Players 3. Knowledge about Cornell Hockey Opponents for upcoming year 4. Knowledge about College Hockey in general. This test would help to eliminate the annoying sorority girl or freshman who doesn't understand why the play stopped when the puck was iced or who doesnt know what Hockey East is. I think the idea would help to make Cornell hockey fans the most knowledgable in the country. If we arent already. If this idea is too stupid I also like the idea of having the line form over Fall Break. [/q]

the other problem with this is that some noobs eventually fall in love with the game and become avid fans. My wife is a good example. she knew nothing of hockey until she heard f* em up f* em up go CU -> she has been to TONS of away games and had season tickets for 5 years with being on the islands for 2 in between. Nothing like my wife going off on a player at an away game :-D
ps
always should have an alternative solution when I criticize one proposed.
one question, how many more seats are we gaining next year? will that alter things?
I like the general admission by section idea. adding sections where the current locker rooms are will be helpful and will likely be student-desired seats since they are closer than e,f,g.

[DeltaOne81]

They are *not* adding seats on the west end of the rink. At least not at this time. The renevation is more minor than that. If it will have any impact on seating, it will be minimal.

I am unconvinced that a 'section GA' ticket really solves anything. Afterall, who goes to the hockey line saying they want row 13! Or row 13, seat 6. No, people want Section B, or A. And they can still only get it by showing up to the line early, so it seems to me people have almost exactly as much incentive to show up early under that system as they do under the current one.

Also, if you know you have your section B ticket guaranteed, do you really have much incentive to show up early to the games? Sure, it could let you customize your exactly viewing from within the section, but how much incentive is that? Doesn't seem like much.

Combine that with an unmonitored line, and it sounds to me like this is going right back to 2003 - which may not have been dangerous, but was bad enough to kick off  this whole era of bad lines. If you're going to do GA, I don't think you solve anything unless you do complete GA, but that makes game nights a bit of a process. Am I wrong?

[Liz '05]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
If you're going to do GA, I don't think you solve anything unless you do complete GA, but that makes game nights a bit of a process. Am I wrong?[/q]

I think the primary thing that GA solves is the getting students to the game early problem.

I'm getting more and more convinced that modified GA is the way to go.  And I think that the Fall Break time, with so few academic committments, is likely to be our best option.  But if an unmonitored line starts before then, as it obviously will, do we give line numbers out?  Who gives them out?  Can they be picked up at the ticket office during working hours?  Do we have a list at the ticket office or at the line that overnight arrivees must sign?  Are we going back to two tickets per line number?  

And that test idea amuses me too.  While it should never be used to determine who gets in (or else I never would've seen Cornell hockey), it could be a fun line activity.  Winner gets a signed hockey stick or something