the official line idea thread

[KeithK]

[q]Plus, not to rain on anybody's parade, but I'm really not sure how important or even useful it is for this group to come to any kind of consensus. Athletics is under no obligation even to listen to individual ideas, much less view an online discussion group's consensus as good advice.[/q]Now if the folks on eLF can come up with say $20 million to donate to Cornell Athletics, contingent on the AD implementing our plan for the ticket line, then I think they'd be happy to listen to us.  How about it?  I'm good for ten bucks.  Only $19,999,990 to go!

[redhair34]

You're absolutely right.  However, there are individuals on eLF (myself included) who are interested in "coming forward with a comprehensive, written plan and ideas on how to make it work, including realistic addressing of budgetary, safety, and academic concerns."  I and a few others are willing to take the chance that Athletics says "thanks but no thanks."  

But I'm not going to take that chance until I've thought through several plans, heard what others who have far more experience w/ Cornell Hockey, the Athletics department, the ticket office, past procedures, etc. have to say. This is because I don't want to suggest a ticket policy that won't work, that people don't want or that Athletics wouldn't consider.  

We've only begun to debate the merits of GA vs. GA by section etc.  We shouldn't rush to a vote until there are clear written plans to compare.  

You're right... athletics never asked us, but I think if you approach them/the ticket office at the right time with the right attitude and show you've put plenty of thought and effort into your ticket suggestion, they will at the very least hear you out.  Even if they ignore us we could try to get a detailed plan published in the Sun and get student support.  

[Beeeej]

I think those are all fine goals, and I applaud you in all sincerity for having them, and for your initiative.  But does that mean you speak for eLF?  Will you be the one to decide what the consensus was?  What about the people who disagree with eLF's consensus, or even disagree with your conclusion as to what that consensus was?

I have absolutely no problem with you collecting opinions and then presenting redhair34's proposal.  I even hereby explicitly grant you permission to adopt any of my ideas or suggestions and use them as part of your proposal if you find them worthwhile.  But as far as eLF goes - eLF is owned by one person, and it doesn't have any quantifiable "membership."  Therefore your call for a vote and your plan to represent eLF's consensus trouble me.

Beeeej

[Beeeej]

Let me add to that last post just a little bit, in fairness.

I think if you come up with a well-constructed proposal, no matter whose ideas it's based on, and you post it here... and it garners the support of a large number of individuals who post here... my opinion is that you have every right to go to Athletics with it with all those individuals' names attached to it (with their permission, of course), and with the phrase "members of the Lynah Faithful community" at the end of the list of names.

I absolutely did not want to shut down your admirable efforts to put together a thoughtful plan that could benefit us all.

Beeeej

[DeltaOne81]

[Q]my opinion is that you have every right to go to Athletics with it with all those individuals' names attached to it (with their permission, of course), and with the phrase "members of the Lynah Faithful community" at the end of the list of names. [/Q]

My plan exactly. We did an open letter once before right? People signed it and it was printed. I'm not sure about what, or if it had any effect whatsoever, but that doesn't mean it's not worth a shot this time.

No one was planning to attach anyone's name to it without permission, and "members of the Lynah Faithful community" was the kind of general title I was thinking of, with people volunteering their names if they agree. And hell, I'd rather not write it, so volunteer away ;-).

Okay, so I was way too early to call for any kind of a consensus.

Right now my main concerns still stand's with the plan having an unmonitored lines until a few days before. Seems to me this would be almost exactly 2003, which was a mess. Seems to me the line needs some kind of control and checks (no physical control necessary if line numbers are distributed immediately, so long as a rush is avoided). I think we're beginning to build a kind of agreement around Tub(a)'s idea - although I expect plenty more discussion on the matter0 - but for myself, I am very opposed to the unmonitored line. I think we've already seen that that doesn't work.

[Sam \'06]

I was thinking you could synthesize the lottery idea and the crazy-rush line idea and get the positives from both.

The biggest problem with a lottery is that it's random, and if you do it say online, kids who don't care a bit about hockey can throw their digital names in the hat.  The biggest problem with the rush like Monday night was the pushing and shoving to get ahead and the mayhem.

What if you did an announcement similar to this year (or slightly different, incorporating other ideas, but an announcement nonetheless) where students would have maybe 2 hours to get to a location (Riley Robb?) and swipe their ID cards.  For those two hours, order doesn't matter.  This way there is no shoving and fighting and the line moves really fast -- there's not the same "he's taking my line number" competitive spirit.  However many people rushed for tickets this year plus a few more swipe their cards (and they have this technology, the Class of 2006 picnic last week used it masterfully).  After 2 hours or so, the lottery is locked.  Then, a computer picks 1462 of those people, and they go wait from Friday to 6pm til Saturday 6pm like this year (or they don't, I personally don't see the point since that doesn't deter anyone).

This stops the crazy driving, the injury risks, the fighting.  It also stops people who don't _really_ want tickets from getting them, if they aren't ready at a moment's notice to head out to a location on central.  Really, anyone who was on central campus patrolling on Monday night deserved a crack at tickets; regardless of what games they'd been to or not, they demonstrated a passionate interest in Cornell hockey.  Since there are more of those students than ticket available, someone will always miss out, but this way the system would be as fair as possible while still giving students a good shot at tickets.

Also after the ridiculous spread of line numbers amongst friends this year (and it would continue under my system outlined above), maybe some sort of blocking system like the one they use in the residence halls is in order?  Just a thought.

-- Sam

[redhair34]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 I think those are all fine goals, and I applaud you in all sincerity for having them, and for your initiative.  But does that mean you speak for eLF?  Will you be the one to decide what the consensus was?  What about the people who disagree with eLF's consensus, or even disagree with your conclusion as to what that consensus was?

I have absolutely no problem with you collecting opinions and then presenting redhair34's proposal.  I even hereby explicitly grant you permission to adopt any of my ideas or suggestions and use them as part of your proposal if you find them worthwhile.  But as far as eLF goes - eLF is owned by one person, and it doesn't have any quantifiable "membership."  Therefore your call for a vote and your plan to represent eLF's consensus trouble me.

Beeeej[/q]



When I mentioned in the other thread that I thought that the "elf posters should take ownership of the ticket process," I meant just that--the posters.  I don't speak for elf.  However, I would be willing to speak for a group of alumni/students/interested parties who  want to come up with a new ticket policy.  There proabably won't be across the board consensus as to the best policy.  No policy is going to please everyone.  However, the more people on elf tend to agree on a policy the more likely it will appeal to a wider audience (as long as we don't neglect the casual fan).  

[KeithK]

That's basically what the Yankees do to hand out playoff tickets.  Everyone who's present at an announced time gets a numbered wristband and then ticket sales begin at a random number.

The problem with this for me is that it provides essentially no advantage for "real" fans.  Everyone is treated equally - facetimer and three year road trip veteran alike.

[redhair34]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

I absolutely did not want to shut down your admirable efforts to put together a thoughtful plan that could benefit us all.
[/q]

Thank you Beeeej and don't worry, it's hard to discourage me.  Just ask my mother:-D

-Rob

[nshapiro]

So you want a way to prove your dedication, without risking life and limb, and without costing the Athletic Department any time or money? This eliminates monitored lines, dashes to get numbers, and equipment to track attendence at other events. Hmm....

Assuming every Cornell student has unlimited access to a PC, turn the process into a marathon, rather than a sprint.  Set up a web site that every student can access, and say that for each day in September that a student accesses the website during 6 different hours, they get a priority point.  At the end of September, you will have students sorted into 30 prioritized bins, and then randomly assign numbers within each bin.  It is geeky, but it just might work!  Call it a virtual line, with user initiated line checks.

[Beeeej]

...and a bunch of very annoyed public lab supervisors.   ::worry::

Beeeej

[mamat]

I think redhair34 is on the right track.  As an alum who did my time on the line in "77,  the parent of (2) students and member of the Hockey Association, I am happy to give him my vote!!

[Dave \'02]

What if they did a hybrid system?  They could set aside x amount of tickets (maybe 150 a game) for freshman.  They could have a lottery type system for single game tickets for the freshman.  As far as everyone else, they could have a line but not advertise it on the web-site.  Have tickets go on on sale in the spring and have them announce when at the games, but have them do it something like 20 minutes before the puck drops.  That way the fans who get there early enough to watch warm-ups etc. will know when it is.  You would either need to get there early enough to know when it forms or have friends who do.  That should cut down on the facetimers b/c they wouldn't get there early enough to hear the announcement and people would be discouraged from telling them about it.

[Tub(a)]

There has to be a way of "monitoring" the line that still allows athletics to claim they aren't interfering with academics.

[DeltaOne81]

Tub(a) - and everyone else - do you think, 'overnight monitoring only' would quality?

What about every weekend (weekends only), 3 or 4 weeks in a row from the start of school on. No officially start time announced like the original plan, but only monitor on the weekend.

--------

VERY ALTERNATE IDEA:

I like nshapiro's idea, but what about not virtual?

You show up once per day and check in - sometime during the ticket office hours - and show ID. Maybe two periods per day that count. 10 am until 2 pm (everyone has a lunch, at least most days, right?), and 2 pm until 6 pm or something (details can be worked out later - exact hours, how many 'periods' in a day, etc, etc). Do this for a whole month. At the end of the month, everyone which an equal number of appearances are put in a lottery which each other.

Pros:
- No rush, it's a marathon, not a sprint, in the good words before
- Needs a committment - should reduce facetimers - or if a facetimer is that committed, fine, they win

Cons:
- Ticket office staff requirement - this is committing a lot of their time - alternate: put non-networked computers in the Ramin Room and have students come up and swipe their IDs to register instead of using manpower

Any other pros and cons? Is this one work deliving into deeper? What do you think of it?