OT: Wouldn't it be fun

Trotsky · March 07, 2005, 07:06:59 PM

If Cornell basketball, at #2, was only a slight underdog in this week's Ivy League Tournament, the winner of which was guaranteed an NCAA bid.

Alas, we all know that doesn't happen. But it would be fun, and someday I hope it's a reality.

KeithK · March 07, 2005, 07:14:04 PM

I disagree. I like the purity of the best team, as decided by the home and home round robin schedule, being declared the league champion. Especially since they do use a single championship game to break ties. No reason to hold a league tournament (as opposed to ECAC hockey in it's inception, where there was an unbalanced schedule).

Pete Godenschwager · March 07, 2005, 07:17:31 PM

Is the Ivy League the only basketball conference without a tournament? I remember the Big 10 didn't have one for a while, but that was a while ago (early 90's?).

Trotsky · March 07, 2005, 07:19:58 PM

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

I disagree. I like the purity of the best team, as decided by the home and home round robin schedule, being declared the league champion. Especially since they do use a single championship game to break ties. No reason to hold a league tournament (as opposed to ECAC hockey in it's inception, where there was an unbalanced schedule).[/q]

So you're in favor of scrapping the ECAC Hockey Tournament? It's a balanced schedule now.

Josh '99 · March 07, 2005, 07:26:05 PM

Another chance to root against Penn? Count me in. B-]

KeithK · March 07, 2005, 07:30:37 PM

[q]So you're in favor of scrapping the ECAC Hockey Tournament? It's a balanced schedule now. [/q]Not to give RichS any ammunition :-D but I've said before that I think the RS is a better judge of the best team than the tournament. Because the tournament is well established over 40 years I'm torn and can't come out and say I'm definitely in favor of scapping it. But if the ECAC didn't have a tournament now I would not be in favor of starting one.

(Please no arguments - the ECAC Champion is the tournament champion.)

Luke 05 · March 07, 2005, 07:55:52 PM

Ivy League is the only Division 1 conference to not hold a postseason men's basketball tournament.

CornellChris · March 07, 2005, 08:09:39 PM

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:

Another chance to root against Penn? Count me in. [/q]
Just out of curiosity, will you be rooting against them in the NCAA tournament, or cheering for them since they're representing the Ivy League in the big dance? Just wondering what other Cornell fans will be doing...

Who is our basketball rival anyway? I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I don't know. Do we have one? Harvard is our hockey rival obviously. In football, I always considered Penn our rival since we always close the season against them and the Trustee's Cup is passed between the two schools. Is there a basketball rivalry?

As far as the tournament goes... part of me likes being the only conference not to hold a tournament. Also, I don't think there's anything inherently unfair about the current system. I still believe the most deserving team is champion and gets to go to the NCAA tournament. In other words, I don't think we need an Ivy tournament, but if we had one I think it would be exciting and certainly wouldn't complain.

I have a much bigger problem with our football teams not being allowed in the postseason. I've never understood that one. If someone knows the rationale for that particular rule, by all means, please enlighten me.

-Chris

jtwcornell91 · March 07, 2005, 08:17:55 PM

[Q]Luke 05 Wrote:

Ivy League is the only Division 1 conference to not hold a postseason men's basketball tournament.[/q]

Aren't there some conferences that hold postseason tournaments but give their autobid to the RS winner?

CornellChris · March 07, 2005, 08:43:53 PM

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

[Q2]Luke 05 Wrote:

Ivy League is the only Division 1 conference to not hold a postseason men's basketball tournament.[/Q]
Aren't there some conferences that hold postseason tournaments but give their autobid to the RS winner?[/q]
None that I know of. However, there's no shortage of basketball conferences, so I suppose anything's possible. It would kind of go against the "ESPN/made-for-tv/big dance drama" nature of most of these tournaments though. With nothing on the line, ESPN has no reason to show the conference championship, and (for most of these schools) the tournament championship game is their only chance to get on TV in a given season.

-Chris '03

CUlater 89 · March 07, 2005, 10:33:22 PM

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

I disagree. I like the purity of the best team, as decided by the home and home round robin schedule, being declared the league champion. Especially since they do use a single championship game to break ties. No reason to hold a league tournament (as opposed to ECAC hockey in it's inception, where there was an unbalanced schedule).[/q]

Agreed. Look at a school like Davidson, which I believe dominated its conference but lost in the tournament and likely will be relegated to the NIT. For conferences, regardless of sport, where it's typically the case that only one team makes the NCAAs, having a conference tournament really hurts the better teams. For conferences where multiple teams typically reach the NCAAs (in hoops) or where multiple teams have a chance each year during the regular season to reach the NCAAs (like the Hockey East, WCHA, CCHA and, usually ECAC, as opposed to CHA or Atlantic Hockey), having a tournament isn't as bad.

ninian '72 · March 08, 2005, 10:28:46 AM

[Q]Pete Godenschwager Wrote:

Is the Ivy League the only basketball conference without a tournament? I remember the Big 10 didn't have one for a while, but that was a while ago (early 90's?).[/q]

Correct. The Big 10 didn't hold a tournament until 1998.

Dart~Ben · March 08, 2005, 11:47:58 AM

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
Aren't there some conferences that hold postseason tournaments but give their autobid to the RS winner?[/q]

Not that I know of. I know some conferences really rig the brackets to favor the top seed or two, but I'm pretty sure every conference awards their auto-bid to the tournament champion except for the Ivies.

atb9 · March 09, 2005, 01:11:20 AM

[Q]CornellChris Wrote:

As far as the tournament goes... part of me likes being the only conference not to hold a tournament. Also, I don't think there's anything inherently unfair about the current system. I still believe the most deserving team is champion and gets to go to the NCAA tournament. In other words, I don't think we need an Ivy tournament, but if we had one I think it would be exciting and certainly wouldn't complain.[/q]

I always thought conference tournaments are extremely beneficial because they mimic the format that crowns the NCAA champion--you lose, you're done; you win, you have to immediately pick yourself up to play a superior opponent (theoretically). The regular season just isn't the same. A team that loses in the conference tournament can learn from their mistakes and make adjustments for the NCAA tournament, if they get an at large bid.

[Q]CornellChris Wrote:I have a much bigger problem with our football teams not being allowed in the postseason. I've never understood that one. If someone knows the rationale for that particular rule, by all means, please enlighten me.[/q]

I got nothing and it's something that I've groaned about since I started following Ivy football. I always thought the rationale was the players health and academics but I have no solid backing for that.

ugarte · March 09, 2005, 10:16:25 AM

[Q]CornellChris Wrote:

[Q2]jmh30 Wrote:

Another chance to root against Penn? Count me in. [/Q]
Just out of curiosity, will you be rooting against them in the NCAA tournament, or cheering for them since they're representing the Ivy League in the big dance? Just wondering what other Cornell fans will be doing...
[/q]Definitely rooting FOR Penn in Ivy hoops. Every time they win it makes it less likely that Cornell will be in the PIG when we finally win the conference (or so I tell myself). I want the conference to get some respect.