Goaltending Recruit

[calgARI '07]

totally worthless.  get a life.

[RedAR]

I disagree with what calgARI has been saying about LeNeveu and goaltending, but he is by no means a flaming.  He is expressing his opinion.

Is it me, or has the civility of this forum dropped off significantly from years past?  Perhaps it's a sign of the success of Cornell hockey, and eLynah.  Who knows?

[ben03]

Ari,

I introduced myself to you during the playoffs a few weeks back … and admire your intense feelings for Cornell hockey and those who support it. Living in NYC only allowed me to make  a limited number games this year. I have to say that I noticed you each time I was in Lynah and I must say; it was usually for the wrong reasons. I did my time as a member of the Faithful while on campus and think many would agree I went to great lengths to support our boys. But I did not go about it as you have chosen to. You can lead by example or lead with your mouth, you have chosen the latter. Your sharp criticism of every move on and off the ice is not a tactic that will gain you much support for your views. I'm smart enough to know you are not here to make friends ... but you just might consider taking it down a notch. I am by no means saying that certain opinions posted here carry more weight than others (although there are some on this forum that think otherwise). Maybe adjusting your approach during the off-season will gain you a bit more support here and in the stands.

Second, I've known AJGD '04 for quite some time and think it's safe to say he's been lurking all season. Like a few others I have spoken with, he probably just got a bit fed up with your overly objective and often unnecessarily harsh critiques of our team and fans. Don't get me wrong, I understand you have been following Cornell hockey longer than I, and many others here, but that does not give you some divine license to tell us what is and what should be.

As for the matter of civility ... I agree the level may have fallen off in the past few years but credibility of the posters is not something one gains by the number of posts they have accrued in their eLynah account. I've only met a small number of you in person but maybe AJGD '04 is right on this one ... maybe you are an a**hole … though I can't say for sure. ::screwy::

[Josh '99]

Such a logical, reasoned opinion, with numbers to back it up...

This has no place on an Internet message board!   ::nut::

[Avash]

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

You can lead by example or lead with your mouth, you have chosen the latter. Your sharp criticism of every move on and off the ice is not a tactic that will gain you much support for your views. I'm smart enough to know you are not here to make friends ... but you just might consider taking it down a notch. [/Q]


[Q]ben03 later wrote:

I've only met a small number of you in person but maybe AJGD '04 is right on this one ... maybe you are an a**hole [/Q]

Yeah, he should take it down a notch, because "leading by example" would be calling another person an asshole for expressing his opinion AND explaining it. Oh wait....

Honestly, though, I can't believe that only a few people were willing to have a mature discussion about Cornell goaltending, past and present. I know I haven't contributed to this thread yet, but it was interesting to read until it recently became ABSURD; there was a healthy debate going on concerning goaltending, defense, and even coaching perspectives, and it suddenly became an immature attack on Ari's character. He expressed his opinion, explained it, and someone (AJGD) who is actually going to graduate this spring (can you believe it?) resorted to unnecessary name-calling. Absolutely pathetic. So what if you don't agree? You can't just say so in a reasonable manner and move on?

[DisplacedCornellian]

I think Ben'03 might be onto something there....

[ugarte]

Ari,

I've got your back.  I disagree with you a lot, but I've got your back.  I can't figure out what inspired these irrational attacks on you, so just let it slide.  Trust me, Ben and AJGD are revealing much more about themselves than they are about you.

[ben03]

[Q]Avash '05 Wrote:

 ben03 Wrote:

You can lead by example or lead with your mouth, you have chosen the latter. Your sharp criticism of every move on and off the ice is not a tactic that will gain you much support for your views. I'm smart enough to know you are not here to make friends ... but you just might consider taking it down a notch.

ben03 later wrote:

I've only met a small number of you in person but maybe AJGD '04 is right on this one ... maybe you are an a**hole

Yeah, he should take it down a notch, because "leading by example" would be calling another person an asshole for expressing his opinion AND explaining it. Oh wait....

Edited 1 times. Last edit at 04/01/04 02:09AM by Avash '05. [/Q]

hey avash ... how about when you quote someone you use the WHOLE QUOTE. not just the part you like/dislike to make your point. who knows maybe even use an ellipse to at least let other readers know there is more there. just a thought for someone who might graduate next spring (can you believe it)? i reserved judgment on the name calling by saying, "I've only met a small number of you in person but maybe AJGD '04 is right on this one ... maybe you are an a**hole … though I can't say for sure.” take it how you like, just as ari is free to express his opinion, so to am I, as are all others here. deal with it.

[KenP]

Getting back to (one of) the point(s) at hand....

calgARI '07 Wrote:

LeNeveu was and is a good goalie, but was not the superhuman last year that some people are insinuating.

- Lenny's GAA and SV% were superhuman.  These are indicative stats, but don't tell the whole story...
- Hobey Hat Trick, ECAC POY, etc., are also indicative, but less so due to subjective factors.  However, just like polls vs rankings -- the cream tends to rise to the top.
- There are also "intangible" stats like "how good were the saves", "how timely were the saves", "how often did the goalie keep the team in the games when the team wasn't playing their best", and "how relaxed is the team with the goalie between the pipes".  These are truly intangible and your opinion is as valid as anyone's.  (Probably more valid than mine since I only saw/listened to games on Internet.)
- Every comment by announcers about Lenny suggest that he is and was one of the most fundamentally sound, "superhuman" young goalies out there.  Also, his intensity and perfectionist tendencies were often cited.  This is also open to speculation, but I'd really like to hear from people who know hockey (specifically goaltending) well enough to lend real insight.

[billhoward]

[Q]KenP Wrote:

 - Hobey Hat Trick, ECAC POY, etc., are also indicative, but less so due to subjective factors. However, just like polls vs rankings -- the cream tends to rise to the top.  [/Q]


That's not all that rises to the top of some bodies of water.

Which may explain why POTY awards vary in their level of excellence from year to year.

[GotYourBackAri]

I got your back Ari -- you just tell me when and where the fight is, and we'll take em all.

[calgARI '07]

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 Ari,

I introduced myself to you during the playoffs a few weeks back … and admire your intense feelings for Cornell hockey and those who support it. Living in NYC only allowed me to make  a limited number games this year. I have to say that I noticed you each time I was in Lynah and I must say; it was usually for the wrong reasons. I did my time as a member of the Faithful while on campus and think many would agree I went to great lengths to support our boys. But I did not go about it as you have chosen to. You can lead by example or lead with your mouth, you have chosen the latter. Your sharp criticism of every move on and off the ice is not a tactic that will gain you much support for your views. I'm smart enough to know you are not here to make friends ... but you just might consider taking it down a notch. I am by no means saying that certain opinions posted here carry more weight than others (although there are some on this forum that think otherwise). Maybe adjusting your approach during the off-season will gain you a bit more support here and in the stands.

Second, I've known AJGD '04 for quite some time and think it's safe to say he's been lurking all season. Like a few others I have spoken with, he probably just got a bit fed up with your overly objective and often unnecessarily harsh critiques of our team and fans. Don't get me wrong, I understand you have been following Cornell hockey longer than I, and many others here, but that does not give you some divine license to tell us what is and what should be.

As for the matter of civility ... I agree the level may have fallen off in the past few years but credibility of the posters is not something one gains by the number of posts they have accrued in their eLynah account. I've only met a small number of you in person but maybe AJGD '04 is right on this one ... maybe you are an a**hole … though I can't say for sure.  



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 04/01/04 12:42AM by ben03. [/Q]

I think it's pretty harsh to say that I sharply criticize every move on and off the ice.
Don't know how many games you were there for, but the ones I feel they are playing well, I don't criticize, but for the ones I feel they are not playing well, I do criticize.  Really don't see what is wrong with that.  I am not going to just coddle them when they are not playing well.  I have every right as a fan (a long time, knowledgable fan that has seen many precedents set in many areas) to speak my mind regarding this team.  That is why this is called A FORUM.  I will give praise when I feel praise is due and will give criticism when I feel criticism is due.  Read my columns and I feel I give a lot more praise than criticism when you add it all up.

[ben03]

freshman UNITE!!!
::starwars::

[ben03]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:

I think it's pretty harsh to say that I sharply criticize every move on and off the ice.
Don't know how many games you were there for, but the ones I feel they are playing well, I don't criticize, but for the ones I feel they are not playing well, I do criticize.  Really don't see what is wrong with that.  I am not going to just coddle them when they are not playing well.  I have every right as a fan (a long time, knowledgable fan that has seen many precedents set in many areas) to speak my mind regarding this team.  That is why this is called A FORUM.  I will give praise when I feel praise is due and will give criticism when I feel criticism is due.  Read my columns and I feel I give a lot more praise than criticism when you add it all up. [/Q]


Let’s try and end this as amicably as possible. I am well aware that this is a forum, you need not shout. The simple fact is … IMHO you lack credibility. The length of time one has been a fan does not (in my book) make you an authority on said team. You may possess a greater knowledge base than most but by no means does that make your “opinion” more/less valuable than others (not trying to insinuate this is the case). You have gained a reputation as a passionate fan that shares his opinions good/bad/indifferent here and in the stands. You have sparked many interesting discussions and I hope you continue to do so. I’ll leave it to you to agree or disagree … but my observations of you in person are mine, like them or not. And as was pointed out earlier, we are all entitled to our opinions. As I said previously, credibility is a form of respect … respect is earned not by the number of posts but rather over time. I imagine you will soon learn that demanding respect will get the opposite reaction. Four years isn’t much of a difference in age, but the four years that separate us will are worlds apart. Just some thoughts from older classmate … take my words however you like.

[DisplacedCornellian]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
 I have every right as a fan (a long time, knowledgable fan that has seen many precedents set in many areas) to speak my mind regarding this team.  That is why this is called A FORUM.  I will give praise when I feel praise is due and will give criticism when I feel criticism is due.  Read my columns and I feel I give a lot more praise than criticism when you add it all up. [/Q]

You do have every right to speak your mind as a fan.  I think the thing that bugs me (and maybe some other people), is that any time something doesn't go quite right, you look to place BLAME somewhere.  It comes across like you are trying to cut the team down.  To me a real fan sticks behind the team in good times and bad.  It's one thing to say "yeah, the team didn't play their best game, they just didn't look like they had their hearts in it", it's another thing to say "A,B, and C have underachieved all season.  They should be drawn and quartered." (Yes, I realize you've probably never suggested anything quite so drastic, but you get my point).

Again, you do have every right to speak your mind as a fan.  But if you're going to make what some might consider inflammatory remarks about the team, you should be prepared to deal with the backlash.  Some of your remarks come across as if you think you are some great hockey guru whose posts should be treated as some divine writ.  Yes, you have a right to criticize, but we reserve the right to call you a douche bag for it.

   

side note:  your "i've been going to cornell hockey games all my life" spiel is getting kind of old.  I don't care if you've been attending games since you were in the womb, that doesn't make you any more of an authority, or any more of a fan, than anybody else.  It also doesn't necessarily make you a "knowledgeable fan".