Goaltending Recruit

[calgARI '07]

I think this year's team was extremely good defensively, but not as good as they were last year defensively, roughly half a goal per game worse (compare LeNeveu and McKee's GAA and it is a bit more than half a goal per game difference).  
I think the jury is still out on how good McKee is.  LeNeveu was obviously very good, but I think it's tough to judge how good he actually was playing on such a good defensive team.  How good of a goalie he is will be determined on how he does in the pros over a long term period.  

[marty]

[Q]RedAR Wrote:

  IMO, if LeNeveu played for us this season, at least a few of the ties or 1 goal losses we had would have been a win.  Again, this is not an indictment of McKee, but testament to the solid positioning and talent LeNeveu had. [/Q]


You are comparing a Sophomore (or Junior) LeNeveu to a Freshman McKee.  I think this is bit premature.  Next year will tell.

Some of the wins and ties this year would have been losses with a lesser goalie.

[KeithK]

[Q]IMO, if LeNeveu played for us this season, at least a few of the ties or 1 goal losses we had would have been a win.[/Q]I think you can also make the argument that the inexperience of the team in front of McKee contributed a lot to the early season losses and ties.  Maybe LeNeveu wouldn't have made a difference.  Of course, McKee did have some shaky moments early on as well, so maybe not.

[DisplacedCornellian]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:

 Let me just ask this: if LeNeveu was as amazing last year as his numbers indicated (best ever GAA), why didn't he win the Hobey?  
How many genuine scoring chances did opponents have on Cornell all season?  
Last year's TEAM was unbelievable and this was exploited playing in the ECAC.  Some people hang their success on LeNeveu's numbers.  I just don't see it that way.  His GAA attributed more to the team, IMO.  The majority of the people who voted for the Hobey agreed with this assessment as evidenced by LeNeveu not winning.
LeNeveu was and is a good goalie, but was not the superhuman last year that some people are insinuating.  
I'm sure people will disagree and that's fine, but that is how I saw it at the time and how I see it now. [/Q]

I think LeNeveu actually saw quite a few "genuine" scoring chances last year.  The team was so good at blocking shots that those Lenny saw were the quality chances, be it on defensive breakdowns or through screens.   While he might not have seen as MANY genuine scoring opportunities as other goalies, he probably saw the same percentage of quality shots as any other goalie.

I agree that the GAA is more a testament to the team than the goalie, but a .940 save percentage is pretty impressive, especially given the fact that he could go half a period without seeing a shot and still be focused enough on the game to come up big when he had to.  

As for why he didn't win the Hobey...we can all speculate.  My theory is that a) Sejna had a great year, and b) they didn't want to give it to a goalie since Ryan Miller won it so recently

[dss28]

I've been able to watch LeNeveu play a few times this year -- and quite literally, he's the only reason the Falcons were able to stay in the games I saw -- in fact, they even won a few.  You don't stop 55 of 56 shots (the New Years game @Hartford) if you're an average goalie... and many of these shots were head-on, odd-man rushes that even the home crowd mumbled their disbelief/admiration at the goaltending.

I will admit to flaws in my argument: he's not playing for the same team anymore, he's not on the same level of play anymore, the Falcons are still in last place, his GAA is significantly higher than it was last year (2.68, 91.9%), when you see more shots on goal you stay more focused, etc.  And I'm sure there are flaws that I'm not even addressing.

It's my personal belief that the goalie-defense relationship is symbiotic -- each one can only go a certain distance on their own -- evidenced by this very discussion:  with a great defense before him, LeNeveu put up spectacular numbers and "led" (I use that term loosely) the team to victory; when he's left out to dry, both he and the team suffer (I even see this codependence with the Wolf*Pack -- they seem to be more comfortable and a better overall team when LaBarbera is in goal as opposed to Osaer, even against teams they've already blown away.  But back to the topic at hand...).

But despite all this, I personally think his numbers are above average, and that all praise and accolades he's gotten have been well-earned.

But that's just me.

[Greg Berge]

It's a little bizarre (in my opinion), to say that Lenny not winning the Hobey indicates voters thought that he rode his team's coattails and was nothing special when he was one of the Hobey Hattrick -- the top 3 players in the country.  And if he was primarily a passive beneficiary of a great defense and system, why did he win All-American and ECAC POTY?

[The Rancor]

no doubt LeNeveu is a super-star in the making, assuming he can find his way to a team that can play in front of him. he's young, skilled and soon he'll be seasoned. I think his numbers are amazing this year in the AHL considering the bozos that skate in front of him.
Last years team had what it takes to win, great defense, a system, a goalie beyond expectation, and balanced scoring... they realy spread out those points last season. However, at the end of last year up untill the start of this season there was a lot of talk (myself included) about the extra offensive "oomph" that the team needed. Vesce and Moulson's touch this year was great, but IMHO what the team needed in '03 was a pure goal scorer... not a better goalie (or goaltending performance).
next year, a tighter more seasoned defence will immerge, and i expect that the goal scoring touch we saw much of this year will return, with reinforcements.

[billhoward]

[Q]DisplacedCornellian Wrote:


As for why he didn't win the Hobey...we can all speculate.  My theory is that a) Sejna had a great year, and b) they didn't want to give it to a goalie since Ryan Miller won it so recently [/Q]

Maybe LeNeveu didn't win the Hobey because he was a semi-rookie. He alternated in goal freshman year, so sophomore year was his first full season as the No. 1 goaltender. And the year before Doug Murray was a Hobey nominee, so maybe some voters figured it was Cornell's defense pulling him along.

It's a long line of Cornellian runner-ups for player of the year award. Well, maybe not that long. Ed Marinaro was second for the Heisman in 1972. Two other players of the year types from Cornell were French and McEneaney 1975-77 in lacrosse. Anybody else who was the dominant player in his sport the last couple decades?

[calgARI '07]

I think it's a little bizarre to say that LeNeveu is as amazing as his numbers indicate if he wasn't voted the best player in the NCAA the year he put up these numbers.  Did he do very well?  Absolutely, thus warranting the most of the accolades he received (I say most because I don't think he deserved playoff MVP over Paolini).  His numbers indicate that he is one of the best goalies in NCAA history and possibly even the best.  He may have had the potential to be, but we'll never know IMO.  Had he stayed we would have had a much better idea obviously.

[RedAR]

you can't really compare apples and oranges, or in this case, goalie and forward.  among all the goalies last year, he was undoubtably the best goalie out there.  among all the goalies in the history of college hockey, he was very near the top of the list.  the fact that he didn't get the hobey baker when he was in contention with sejna does NOT take away from the fact that he was an amazing goalie.

[DisplacedCornellian]

What RedAR said.  You can't really compare a goalie and a forward.  It doesn't make sense to say that he isn't "as amazing as his numbers indicate" just because he didn't win the hobey.  He can be every bit as amazing as the numbers indicated and still not win the award if somebody else had an equally amazing season.

[ugarte]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I think it's a little bizarre to say that LeNeveu is as amazing as his numbers indicate if he wasn't voted the best player in the NCAA the year he put up these numbers.[/Q]Why? We never really give a whole lot of respect to the voters' choices anyway.  The truth is, LeNeveu was underappreciated by the NCAA voters because he came so soon after Ryan Miller, and that is why he didn't win.  

LeNeveu wasn't underappreciated by the Canadian WJC coaching staff, who selected him for the squad over two goalies he was expected to lose out to.  He wasn't underappreciated by Phoenix, who threw enough money at him that he left a pretty damn good situation in Ithaca.  And he wasn't overappreciated by the Faithful who saw him play only one game (UNH 2003) that was less than stellar.

[AJGD \'04]

and lets just say that you are a flaming asshole

[calgARI '07]

not sure who you are speaking to, but that is a totally worthless post.  at least make some sort of argument pertaining to the topic.

[AJGD \'04]

calgARI '07... I'm talking to you.

The topic of the post is you being an asshole.

The argument of the post is that you are a flaming asshole.

A Flaming Asshole.

You are a Flaming Asshole!