Ivies sued over lack of athletic scholarships

[Weder]

A pair of basketball players from Brown allege in a federal lawsuit that the Ivy League's policy of not offering athletic scholarships amounts to a price-fixing agreement that denies athletes proper financial aid and payment for their services.

https://apnews.com/article/ivy-league-lawsuit-athletes-brown-scholarship-771b34fa36ea06f6109435102d939299

[scoop85]

A pair of basketball players from Brown allege in a federal lawsuit that the Ivy League's policy of not offering athletic scholarships amounts to a price-fixing agreement that denies athletes proper financial aid and payment for their services.

https://apnews.com/article/ivy-league-lawsuit-athletes-brown-scholarship-771b34fa36ea06f6109435102d939299

Yeah, I just don't think this is going to fly. There are hundreds of schools--including some with excellent academic chops--that offer athletic scholarships, so kids coming to the Ivies know what they're getting into right off the bat. This feels different to me than the situation where the Ivies could only offer identical financial aid packages, which was found to be illegal price fixing.

[upprdeck]

so its illegal for ivies to offer the same financial aid to kids but not illegal to pay the same wages?

[Cop at Lynah]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policy

[upprdeck]

I see the arguements, but they make no sense. whats next suing for more financial aid? Can we sue because amazon pays 300% than other companies for some jobs?

[RichH]

"Services." I'm not motivated enough to check the Brown basketball attendance numbers. Surely a vital outlet for the population of greater Providence.

[abmarks]

A pair of basketball players from Brown allege in a federal lawsuit that the Ivy League's policy of not offering athletic scholarships amounts to a price-fixing agreement that denies athletes proper financial aid and payment for their services.

https://apnews.com/article/ivy-league-lawsuit-athletes-brown-scholarship-771b34fa36ea06f6109435102d939299

Yeah, I just don't think this is going to fly. There are hundreds of schools--including some with excellent academic chops--that offer athletic scholarships, so kids coming to the Ivies know what they're getting into right off the bat. This feels different to me than the situation where the Ivies could only offer identical financial aid packages, which was found to be illegal price fixing.

Actually, it's the same thing as the aid packages.   It's a group of schools agreeing to price fixing - and price fixing isn't legal.

It's not that the schools don't offer scholarships. Its that they have agreed together to not award scholarships, collusively keeping the cost of attendance artificially high for athletes.


If there was no league level agreement to ban scholarships (and no tacit agreement between the schools either) and each of the schools independently decided to not award scholarships, that's a different story.

Also, kids applying to ivy league schools also know the deal with financial aid going in, but that doesn't make the price fixing  on aid legal either.

[billhoward]

so its illegal for ivies to offer the same financial aid to kids but not illegal to pay the same wages?

I believe the Ivy League (the schools, not the sporting league) has had its hands slapped for saying accepted students should choose the best Ivy based on what school is best, not what Ivy school offers the best bang for the buck. Or was that at the appeals court level?

[Swampy]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policy

Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia and Penn don't offer merit scholarships of any kind, including athletic scholarships. The policy, which dates back to 1954 ...

This is technically true but substantively untrue. When I attended Cornell in the 1960s, NY state offered Regents scholarships based on a combination of merit and need. Technically it was the state, and not Cornell, offering these pots of money. But A. D .White was responsible for this. When NY established its land grant college, he created a special category of Regents scholarship awarded only to the persons with the highest scores on the Regents Exams in each congressional district. So, in effect White, who chaired the committee in the NY legislature, established a state-funded merit scholarship at Cornell.

[upprdeck]

if the ncaa as a whole can get together and decide limits on scholies and the amount of players and the number of games, then a league would seem to have the same rights to set rules it wants to play under.

[Weder]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policy

Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia and Penn don't offer merit scholarships of any kind, including athletic scholarships. The policy, which dates back to 1954 ...

This is technically true but substantively untrue. When I attended Cornell in the 1960s, NY state offered Regents scholarships based on a combination of merit and need. Technically it was the state, and not Cornell, offering these pots of money. But A. D .White was responsible for this. When NY established its land grant college, he created a special category of Regents scholarship awarded only to the persons with the highest scores on the Regents Exams in each congressional district. So, in effect White, who chaired the committee in the NY legislature, established a state-funded merit scholarship at Cornell.

Cornell (and I assume other Ivies do this) also has various fellowships for students that replace need-based loans with grants. I've always felt this is a fairly large loophole in the school saying there is no "merit-based" aid, considering the fellowships are definitely awarded on merit.

[ugarte]

i think it's a very dubious premise but i don't mind if the ivies give athletic scholarships

[scoop85]

A pair of basketball players from Brown allege in a federal lawsuit that the Ivy League's policy of not offering athletic scholarships amounts to a price-fixing agreement that denies athletes proper financial aid and payment for their services.

https://apnews.com/article/ivy-league-lawsuit-athletes-brown-scholarship-771b34fa36ea06f6109435102d939299

Yeah, I just don't think this is going to fly. There are hundreds of schools--including some with excellent academic chops--that offer athletic scholarships, so kids coming to the Ivies know what they're getting into right off the bat. This feels different to me than the situation where the Ivies could only offer identical financial aid packages, which was found to be illegal price fixing.

Actually, it's the same thing as the aid packages.   It's a group of schools agreeing to price fixing - and price fixing isn't legal.

It's not that the schools don't offer scholarships. Its that they have agreed together to not award scholarships, collusively keeping the cost of attendance artificially high for athletes.


If there was no league level agreement to ban scholarships (and no tacit agreement between the schools either) and each of the schools independently decided to not award scholarships, that's a different story.

Also, kids applying to ivy league schools also know the deal with financial aid going in, but that doesn't make the price fixing  on aid legal either.

I don't agree that it's the same as the across-the-board financial aid agreement that was found to violate the law. Each athlete may now received a different financial aid package from he different league schools based on that school's particular aid formula. The 8 schools have established that athletic prowess is not to be considered in determining any part of the financial aid, which can help maintain competitive balance for varsity athletics. Ultimately of course it will be in the courts rather than our message board that will determine the outcome, but I'll be surprised if the plaintiffs prevail.

[George64]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policy

The attorneys for the Brown athletes point out that other elite academic schools, such as Stanford and Duke, do offer athletic scholarships and "The natural, foreseeable, and intended result of the Ivy League Agreement is that Ivy League athletes have paid more for their education and earned less in compensation or reimbursement than they would have in the absence of the agreement."

This is arguably true, but no one forced these scholar-athletes to go Ivy.  As far as I know, athletes pay no more than other Ivy students with similar financial need.  Plus, Ivy athletes typically get very good summer jobs, although local auto dealerships are unlikely to pay as much for an athlete's NIL, as might some wealthy alum at an athletic powerhouse.
.

[Beeeej]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policy

The attorneys for the Brown athletes point out that other elite academic schools, such as Stanford and Duke, do offer athletic scholarships and "The natural, foreseeable, and intended result of the Ivy League Agreement is that Ivy League athletes have paid more for their education and earned less in compensation or reimbursement than they would have in the absence of the agreement."

This is arguably true, but no one forced these scholar-athletes to go Ivy.  As far as I know, athletes pay no more than other Ivy students with similar financial need.  Plus, Ivy athletes typically get very good summer jobs, although local auto dealerships are unlikely to pay as much for an athlete's NIL, as might some wealthy alum at an athletic powerhouse.
.

The problem with that argument is that someone who plays varsity anything for Brown would most likely ride the bench or dress for the practice squad (or not make the team at all) at any "athletic powerhouse." These athletes weren't getting any NIL money regardless. They chose Brown because of the reasons people usually choose Brown, and they've had their demonstrated financial need met.