Cornell football 2023

[RichH]

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section.   Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

[Ken711]

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section.   Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Andy Noel said at one time there was a long range plan to build more team space (as in locker rooms/weight training) where the West stands stood, with visitor seating above.  That was put on the back burner to focus on the Indoor Practice Facility. With that project finally moving towards construction they may look to the West stand project again at some point.

[Local Motion]

In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse.   When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose.   For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field.   I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility.   It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time.  That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

[Chris '03]

In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse.   When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose.   For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field.   I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility.   It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time.  That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

[BearLover]

2. It's ridiculous he traveled all the way from Chicago and we have no visitor section.   Some of these big high school programs consistently draw 5-15K in some nice stadiums. Schoellkopf's current condition is not acceptable.

Here's an idea: Sit Together. Thus, visitor section.

The fact that West Stands haven't been rebuilt is pretty embarrassing. I felt they were pretty important for the non-major sports.

Sorry, but why do we need a visitor's section when the home section is never more than 10% full outside of homecoming?

[tycho]

In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse.   When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose.   For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field.   I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility.   It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time.  That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

The takeway point, I think, is the illusion Dartmouth creates, for instance, by arranging about half the number (if not less) of bleacher seats around the playing surface in a semicircular pattern -- more of a "stadium" feel akin to top-line high school programs. I've not attended a football game at Dartmouth, but I imagine the acoustics and atmosphere are somehat better than the single-sided Crescent facing an open parking garage at some distance. But that is postulation.

These kids will come to Cornell to play football if they see on-field success, but of course success is bred from recruiting (and coaching) -- i.e. the sometimes fickle psychology of 18-year-old HS seniors. Schoellkopf seems less "stadium" and more small-time HS bleachers on a larger scale. If number of empty seats relative to capacity was the sole determining factor, though, I'd expect Yale and Penn to be drubbed in recruiting.

[Chris '03]

In terms of Schoellkopf, you have to put your mind-set into that of an 18-year old top Ivy League recruit, whether it's football or lacrosse.   When those kids walk into Schoellkopf today and then visit Princeton, Harvard, or even Dartmouth we are probably going to lose.   For example, we have family in Florida (a top recruiting ground) and I have gone to a couple of high school football games where the stadium seats are around the entire field.   I think the seating capacity was over 8-10K for a high school game, but this place looked more like a small FBS college stadium than a high school facility.   It was just your typical aluminum high school type bleachers but fully enclosed on all four ends and it almost felt like the big time.  That is the reality of AAA+ plus high school football especially in the south and places like California etc. where all the Ivy programs are recruiting.

I'm not sure the answer to Cornell's football recruiting woes is to add MORE empty seats on game day.

The takeway point, I think, is the illusion Dartmouth creates, for instance, by arranging about half the number (if not less) of bleacher seats around the playing surface in a semicircular pattern -- more of a "stadium" feel akin to top-line high school programs. I've not attended a football game at Dartmouth, but I imagine the acoustics and atmosphere are somehat better than the single-sided Crescent facing an open parking garage at some distance. But that is postulation.

These kids will come to Cornell to play football if they see on-field success, but of course success is bred from recruiting (and coaching) -- i.e. the sometimes fickle psychology of 18-year-old HS seniors. Schoellkopf seems less "stadium" and more small-time HS bleachers on a larger scale. If number of empty seats relative to capacity was the sole determining factor, though, I'd expect Yale and Penn to be drubbed in recruiting.

I've had the pleasure of seeing Cornell lose at every Ivy.  My recollection of seeing a game at Dartmouth was that the stadium was entirely without character and featured metal bleachers on both sides of the field with open end zones.  Similar but less interesting than Columbia or Colgate.

And yet, Dartmouth has a somewhat proud football tradition. Because where parents put their butts is less important to the recruits than other facilities in an Ivy League that isn't exactly a hot ticket anywhere. And the facilities are only one piece of the puzzle of course.

I agree with RichH that the failure to rebuild the west stands is brutal.  It's made worse by the crescent being um.. past its prime.  When I was a student, the west stands is where we watched everything but (full size) football. For a while I think one of the coached even made the west stands the football student section.

The stadium facility needs help.  But putting bleachers in the end zones isn't making or breaking whether a kid goes to Dartmouth or Cornell.

Other Ivy Stadiums:
Harvard- truly a gem; not on campus but a great place to watch a game
Yale - the bowl is an icon; splinters for everyone; also off campus
Penn- Franklin Field is an icon too; effectively on campus; old but not condemned....
Princeton - the modern stadium that is center stage in Billhoward's dreams. It is modern without being Quinnipiac. On campus.  Perfectly nice.
Columbia - off campus; unexceptional in every way
Brown - schoellkopf with less scenery to look at
Dartmouth - unexceptional

Pretty sure that in the Ivy League, only Yale and Princeton have stands on four sides.  Harvard and Penn are horseshoes. Columbia, Brown, and Dartmouth have stands on two sides.  None of them are modern marvels that are winning recruiting battles.  That's more likely coaching, locker rooms, training facilities, etc.

[upprdeck]

they have the space to put up tents on the west side for the visitors to use..

[tycho]

The stadium facility needs help.  But putting bleachers in the end zones isn't making or breaking whether a kid goes to Dartmouth or Cornell.

Yes, hence the last sentence of my prior. The point, of course, is not one of simply adding more seats to the existing facility (the utility of the west stands for non-full-size football sports notwithstanding). That Yale and Penn can manage to put together successful teams is all the evidence I need to see that an electric atmosphere with lots of butts in lots of seats -- certainly not the hallmark of smaller FCS and Ivy League in particular -- is not a necessary condition. Though Schoellkopf seems to me almost uniquely suited (as does Brown Stadium) to dilute the energy of an already-small crowd, it is certainly my position that there is a broad array of factors weighing on a decision to commit.

I agree with RichH that the failure to rebuild the west stands is brutal. It's made worse by the crescent being um.. past its prime. When I was a student, the west stands is where we watched everything but (full size) football. For a while I think one of the coached even made the west stands the football student section.

Agree.

[upprdeck]

maybe if we paid a coach more than 50K a yr they could fix the program.

[Trotsky]

I think the Crescent is gorgeous, personally.

One of the few lovely remaining structures on a campus plummeting into drab utilitarian treachery.

[Local Motion]

The old West Stands were basically a high school type of bleachers with 4,000 seats which was probably too big for modern day FCS football.   However, if nothing else Cornell needs some West Stand seating for graduation.   I am also not advocating a bowl like Yale or other stadium.   However, at the very least we need a smaller set of visitor seats similar to Dartmouth's current set-up.  

Right now Schoellkopf looks like #$%^&*! on the west side with that ugly parking garage.  We are not talking huge money, but say 1,500 elevated seats on that side with a new all-purpose locker-room under those stands.   Other Ivies like Yale and Princeton have separate state of the art stadiums for sports like lacrosse.  At Cornell, Schoellkopf Field is the only true stadium we have on campus.   It would also be nice to bring some soccer games back to Schoellkopf.   Six current MLS pro soccer clubs play on Field Turf.   A lot more fun to play some bigger but maybe limited soccer games at Schoellkopf than at our much smaller complex on the east end of Alumni Fields.

[Trotsky]

The only way the area around Schoellkopf will ever be attractive again is to bulldoze everything from the west stands to Carpenter and plant trees.

[rss77]

I go back a ways as I watched my first game in 1963 when CU had Wood and Gogolak and there were 19,000 at game (Band Day). My dad and I watched from the End Zone bleachers. Would like to see West Stands restored to some extent and maybe the University could look at extensive renovation of Crescent to also include some chair backs and gussie up the box seats if they could get a big bucks backer.

[upprdeck]

the amount of money already put into the crescent is pretty steep. Would they spend millions more for seatbacks with the retro fit that requires.