blackwidow

[blackwidow]

there is only X amount a coach can do at any given school.  you can recruit every perfect kid that would be great. That doesnt mean they will come, and that doesnt mean they can get accepted..

Its not just the lack of scholies that hurts.  Location, cost, type of school, degrees offered. It all adds up.

Yeah, i acknowledge that coaching at cornell is not a walk in the park. Recruiting def is a challenge because it lacks the brand power of Harvard (im sure everyone is aware of the Alex Killorn recruitment saga?) and also the NHL pipeline like UMich.

But look at the numbers of alums of hockey programs in the ecac that are currently playing in the NHL or on NHL level contracts... cornell's at an all time low. Even Brown has like 4-5 players in the NHL, i think.

[Tcl123]

I'm amazed you guys started a thread on one guy. I don't agree with all his points, but blackwidow isn't far off on his thinking. We are all on the same team here. We can all make excuses why or why not we haven't made it to the summit (thanks UNH ref, thanks fauci), but we are all rooting for the same outcome.

[French Rage]

Only 14 teams, 2 ECAC, and 1 Ivy have done it in the last 25 years, so it's a ridiculous assertion to say that any particular team should have pulled it off "by chance."

I do have to acknowledge the stats you quoted show winning the NCAA title in the last 25 years should not have been claimed to be a walk in the park for the majority of the teams in the ECAC.

But Cornell men's hockey started out as the best hockey program in the ECAC. I guess I should have said if you had given me the best hockey school in the ECAC, I would have random walked my way to the NCAA in 25+ years.

"Started out" when?  We're certainly near or at the top of most ECAC metrics over history.  That doesn't mean we enter every season as the prohibitive favorite.  A couple recruiting mishaps might mean you lose a season or two you hoped to do better in.  And even if things do click, which is by no means guaranteed, there are another 11 teams in the ECAC, and 50+ in the NCAAs, for whom it might click even better that year.

Or, you know, Covid might come along and fuck us in the ass.

All the boot licking for mike schafer on this forum is over the top. He may very well be the best coach cornell mens team can ever find or whatever but he certainly has never performed any miracles over his lenghty tenure. Has he done a decent job given his limited resources and the awkward position cornell finds itself in? Maybe. Cornell's perennial in the mix. But, we never went far enough and actually won something meaningful in the past two decades

The best part is how this doesn't address any actual point I made.

[blackwidow]

Only 14 teams, 2 ECAC, and 1 Ivy have done it in the last 25 years, so it's a ridiculous assertion to say that any particular team should have pulled it off "by chance."

I do have to acknowledge the stats you quoted show winning the NCAA title in the last 25 years should not have been claimed to be a walk in the park for the majority of the teams in the ECAC.

But Cornell men's hockey started out as the best hockey program in the ECAC. I guess I should have said if you had given me the best hockey school in the ECAC, I would have random walked my way to the NCAA in 25+ years.

"Started out" when?  We're certainly near or at the top of most ECAC metrics over history.  That doesn't mean we enter every season as the prohibitive favorite.  A couple recruiting mishaps might mean you lose a season or two you hoped to do better in.  And even if things do click, which is by no means guaranteed, there are another 11 teams in the ECAC, and 50+ in the NCAAs, for whom it might click even better that year.

Or, you know, Covid might come along and fuck us in the ass.

All the boot licking for mike schafer on this forum is over the top. He may very well be the best coach cornell mens team can ever find or whatever but he certainly has never performed any miracles over his lenghty tenure. Has he done a decent job given his limited resources and the awkward position cornell finds itself in? Maybe. Cornell's perennial in the mix. But, we never went far enough and actually won something meaningful in the past two decades

The best part is how this doesn't address any actual point I made.

My apologies for quoting your post but made more of a blanket statement regarding the view the majority of the people on this forum seem to hold.

So, you did accept that during the Schafer era, Cornell was often considered one of the top teams in the ECAC. So, there were many years where we were considered either the heavy favorites or deemed good enough to go after some hardware at least within the ECAC. Cornell did win the ECAC championship 5 times under Schafer's management but No ECAC title since 2010. I would look at this as a very disappointing result. We often fail to win the hardware when we were considered the heavy favorites + we never seem to pull off mild upset victories in tournaments. Also, could you elaborate on what you mean by "a couple of recruiting mishaps"? Are you referring to some recruits that the coaching staff thought were promising but turned out to be busts or are you referring to the recruits that originally committed to Cornell but decided to go elsewhere or forego college altogether (Mark Scheifele)?  Isn't it the responsibility of the coaching staff to minimize the chances of such mishaps happening? I do not believe the responsibility solely lies with the coaching staff. Cornell is in an awkward position in terms of recruiting talents and I sympathize with the coaching staff on this. As an alum, I am trying to figure out if there's anything we can do to help (financial assistance, some PR campaigns to make Cornell men's hockey appear more attractive to future talents, etc).


Plus, Schafer has managed 2 consecutive wins in the NCAA tournament only once (2003) in the 26 seasons he's had at Cornell. Despite the relative lack of rigor of the EZAC in the context of other D1 hockey leagues, for a team that often gets ranked pretty high to manage only one win in the NCAA tourney every few years, I would say, is a disappointing result.

PS: in the early to mid 2010s, I think we were getting some USNTDP graduates, but that seems to have almost completely dried up. I know the USNTDP graduates that came to Cornell didn't really have the best of hockey careers for one reason or another, including some unfortunate injuries. I believe Cole Bardreau's has been the best out of the group. Additionally, there have been several 3rd round draft picks in recent years that, some may say, did not quite meet the expectations (Starrett, Cairns, etc). These are the data points where I start wondering if there's some player development history within Cornell men's hockey that college hockey prospects and their agents look at and think of as red flags.

[Trotsky]

I'm amazed you guys started a thread on one guy. I don't agree with all his points, but blackwidow isn't far off on his thinking. We are all on the same team here. We can all make excuses why or why not we haven't made it to the summit (thanks UNH ref, thanks fauci), but we are all rooting for the same outcome.

I would not have given him a thread as "that which is subsidized increases," (and indeed it was a mistake in the first place that it went public so maybe Age will nuke the whole thing as a mercy killing) but my impression is he didn't earn it with his opinions but his manner.

After all, I was the other person cited in OP, and I'm obnoxious and disliked did you know that?  I make valid points too -- eat the rich with a nice chianti -- but I make them in an overtly off-putting tone which is the despair of my friends if I had any.

That's the point of the thread.  It's supposed to shame blackwidow into stop treating this forum like whatever half-assed honk hate chamber he crawled out of, and start treating others here with Gentleness and Kindness.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a frat date rape joke to make.

[BearLover]

I hadn't realized until now that I was mentioned in the initial post. I don't really care, honestly. I'm a more pessimistic person than many on here, and I tend to disagree with the ELynah hivemind, but I try to support my arguments with facts and data. Anyone who disagrees with the prevailing view on this site is usually quickly chased off the forum, but personally I don't mind the pushback. And you can say whatever you want about my ELynah-minority views, but at least I haven't made fifteen jokes about lacrosse players being rapists like another poster here.

[Trotsky]

I would just like to add our lacrosse players from the working class are among the finest people at the university and their sexual proclivities are consensual.  I thank them for their service.

[Swampy]

I would just like to add our lacrosse players from the working class are among the finest people at the university and their sexual proclivities are consensual.  I thank them for their service.

How do you know this? Is it from hearsay, or is it from first-hand experience?

[Trotsky]

I would just like to add our lacrosse players from the working class are among the finest people at the university and their sexual proclivities are consensual.  I thank them for their service.

How do you know this? Is it from hearsay, or is it from first-hand experience?

Surely you are not impeaching their honor?  Why that could only be from prejudice.  Good day, sir!

[ursusminor]

I would just like to add our lacrosse players from the working class are among the finest people at the university and their sexual proclivities are consensual.  I thank them for their service.

How do you know this? Is it from hearsay, or is it from first-hand experience?

Trotsky is getting consensually serviced by lacrosse players but only with hands. This is certainly a weird thread, even for eLynah.:-D

I better not ask if it is the men's or women's team or if Dr. Mrs. knows about this.

[Trotsky]

I would just like to add our lacrosse players from the working class are among the finest people at the university and their sexual proclivities are consensual.  I thank them for their service.

How do you know this? Is it from hearsay, or is it from first-hand experience?

Trotsky is getting consensually serviced by lacrosse players but only with hands.

If only.  Those hands must be so soft from never working a day in their lives.

Whoever took their SATs for them must be calloused as hell, though.

[CU2007]

Bearlover actually adds a lot of value and makes some good points. Trotsky just isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Black widow probably just enjoys being a troll.

[Trotsky]

Trotsky just isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

Can confirm.

[Beeeej]

PS: in the early to mid 2010s, I think we were getting some USNTDP graduates, but that seems to have almost completely dried up. I know the USNTDP graduates that came to Cornell didn't really have the best of hockey careers for one reason or another, including some unfortunate injuries. I believe Cole Bardreau's has been the best out of the group. Additionally, there have been several 3rd round draft picks in recent years that, some may say, did not quite meet the expectations (Starrett, Cairns, etc). These are the data points where I start wondering if there's some player development history within Cornell men's hockey that college hockey prospects and their agents look at and think of as red flags.

To address only this one point: Recruiting tends to be strongest from the organizations with which a school's assistant coaches have the strongest relationships. We've seen that wax and wane with various juniors leagues and high school regions over Schafer's tenure as Casey, Brent, Derek, Topher, et al. have come and gone. Remember our seemingly permanent Nanaimo pipeline? What do we have on the roster now, one former Clipper? I can't say for certain that this is what happened to whatever USNTDP connection we had, but it's a reasonable theory.

[Trotsky]

Remember our seemingly permanent Nanaimo pipeline? What do we have on the roster now, one former Clipper?

The pipeline has to be open on both ends; maybe personnel changed out in Nanaimo.