Lake Placid roll call

[Trotsky]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.

[Al DeFlorio]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.

80+% acceptance rate

[arugula]

Q was 1-5-1 against Cornell, Harvard, and Clarkson. 30-1-3 against everyone else.  Means either that they will win the National title or they kind of suck.

[Scersk '97]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.

This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

Still, if BearLover is right, I can bide my time. Much of the 80s were Harvard's and, to a lesser extent, SLU's. We did fine during that time, even winning a championship in '86 and having chances to do so again later on. These things go in cycles, and the structural advantages that Harvard seems to enjoy in recruiting right now may not always obtain.

What I am most concerned about are Schafer and Schafer.

(1) I hope Schafer can "go" next year. Although I think he'll be able to, and I'm doubly sure that there is nothing he wants more, I have no inkling either way. Heart problems take a while to recover from, but they can be recovered from just fine. I worry for him; I very much want him to be able to retire from coaching on his own terms. But, in an institutional sense, I worry because...

(2) The thing that can go really wrong is the transition to whomever comes next. Schafer will not coach Cornell forever. In replacing a "generational" coach, we can't botch the next hire like, say, BU seems to have by hiring a new generational coach that didn't stick around or Clarkson did by hiring a quick replacement that couldn't control a team at the Division I level. That's what happened with McCutcheon, who, by all reports, seems to be able to coach hockey but just lost his touch with college players in a way that I think, definitively now, it seems someone like Schafer does not. We either need our next generational coach, or we need a "short timer" that doesn't stay around too long but leaves the team in a good condition. Either way, we can't blow it, so I would prefer that transition takes the right amount of time and consideration. And, if the hockey gods be kind, I hope we really, really luck out like we did back in 1995.

[Weder]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.

80+% acceptance rate

I don't see why so many folks get hung up about acceptance rate as some sort of signal that a school isn't great. Clarkson also has an acceptance rate of about 80% and people don't bag on it because there are tons of other factors in the quality of a school.

[blackwidow]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.

80+% acceptance rate

I don't see why so many folks get hung up about acceptance rate as some sort of signal that a school isn't great. Clarkson also has an acceptance rate of about 80% and people don't bag on it because there are tons of other factors in the quality of a school.

I agree. Cornell gets made fun of for the same reason in the ivy league

[jtwcornell91]

One good thing.

Quinnipiac:

ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016

Wow, kinda like cornell

Cornell's Last 6 RS Titles and Championships from Those Seasons:

ECAC RS Titles: 1973, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2018, 2020
ECAC Champions: 1973, 2003, 2005

So, no.

Not to mention the titles in 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, and 2010 as a non-1-seed in the same timespan.

[BearLover]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.

This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

[RichH]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.

This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

Harvard is and always has been "stocked with draft picks" for the past 25+ years. Outside broadcasters and hockey fans always come in and ooooh and ahhhh about their perennial 8-9+ drafted players when they look at the roster. And Harvard nearly always underperforms by that metric. Draft picks don't matter as much as coaching and development at this level.

I'm sure there's likely family pride involved when a talented kid considering the college route makes that choice simply to have a "Harvard Man" in the family. You can't get that anywhere else, not even Yale or Princeton. It's probably more parental pressure than the players' managers. Every so often a blue chipper like Oliver Wahlstrom breaks that and goes somewhere else as the hype builds, but the "elite education" factor will keep most of the players.  Also, the gentlemanly club life at Yale.

[Trotsky]

Harvard is and always has been "stocked with draft picks" for the past 25+ years. Outside broadcasters and hockey fans always come in and ooooh and ahhhh about their perennial 8-9+ drafted players when they look at the roster. And Harvard nearly always underperforms by that metric. Draft picks don't matter as much as coaching and development at this level.

I'm sure there's likely family pride involved when a talented kid considering the college route makes that choice simply to have a "Harvard Man" in the family. You can't get that anywhere else, not even Yale or Princeton. It's probably more parental pressure than the players' managers. Every so often a blue chipper like Oliver Wahlstrom breaks that and goes somewhere else as the hype builds, but the "elite education" factor will keep most of the players.  Also, the gentlemanly club life at Yale.

HYP have outstanding financial aid which also helps: nobody gets fucked simply for cost they can't absorb.  Cornell still doesn't do that, presumably because the endowment is not large enough and not because Day Hall are psychotics robotically playing out the dismal string of Late Stage Capitalism.

Even if we did something about that there would still be designer label effect, and that won't even be solved when the proles inevitably rise and butcher the rich.  Though it is something to look forward to.

I'm still not convinced anything has changed in recruiting dynamic.  I am now old enough to have experienced all of the following schools being trumpeted as on the way to perpetual dominance due to alleged systemic advantages:

RPI
Harvard
St. Lawrence
Clarkson
St. Lawrence, again
Princeton (Remember that one?  That was hilarious)
Yale
Harvard again

No doubt in a few years there will be a Moral Panic about the rise of Brown.

[Give My Regards]

No doubt in a few years there will be a Moral Panic about the rise of Brown.

I will take that bet right now.

[Swampy]

Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.

They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.

This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.

[Scersk '97]

And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.

There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.

Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.

After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.

F'ing COVID.

[BearLover]

And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.

There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.

Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.

After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.

F'ing COVID.

You may well be right about all of the above. But my point is less about Harvard's current roster and more about the direction the program has trended. Yes, Harvard has always gotten the best talent in the ECAC. But this year's 12 draft picks is the most in Harvard history. They would have had even more if not for COVID. Cornell, meanwhile, has 4. And judging from the recruits in the pipeline, there are more Coronatos on the way.

[blackwidow]

And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.

The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.

Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.

There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.

Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.

After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.

F'ing COVID.

You may well be right about all of the above. But my point is less about Harvard's current roster and more about the direction the program has trended. Yes, Harvard has always gotten the best talent in the ECAC. But this year's 12 draft picks is the most in Harvard history. They would have had even more if not for COVID. Cornell, meanwhile, has 4. And judging from the recruits in the pipeline, there are more Coronatos on the way.

Pain