2022 Takeaways

[ugarte]

Yale had one or two uncommonly good recruiting classes and cashed in their rare chance and won a title out of the 15 seed in 2013. Harvard won once in 1985 when Schafer was still a player.

Cornell has been in the tournament mix far more often than Yale and has had more postseason success during Schafer's tenure than Harvard, who treats every tournament like it's the Beanpot. In a game with as much parity as college hockey has it's a bummer but not a huge shock that we are one of the many teams that have qualified for the tournament but not won a national title in 50 years. I don't think there is some secret formula that other teams have discovered but Cornell hasn't. Schafer assembled the best team in the country in 2020 and lost in a massive upset to COVID.

[scoop85]

It is now 11 years since the last ECAC title for Cornell. Three titles the last 25 years. Previous worst single gap, 1986-1996, 10 years. The current drought includes three trips to the title game and even Princeton has won more recently than us.

Code Select Expand

[b]Year   Years since ECAC title[/b]
1967 --
1968 1 (1=no gap)
1969 1
1970 1
1973 3
1980 7
1986 6
1996 10
1997 1
2003 6
2005 2
2010 5
2022 11

I know everyone here seems to love Schafer but do you think he is to blame for this?

In a word, "No".

Curious to know why that is? Especially the fact that no NCAA title since the early 70s is astounding to me

Just look at the job he did recovering from the mess that the Ivy League left him (2020-2021).   No titles since the early 70's?    That can be said for most of the Ivy schools.   Has he made the NCAA's often?  Yes.   Moral:  An NCAA title is a long shot for most Ivys.   I'm accepting of this but hope they can do it one more time in my lifetime.   Mike gives them a good chance at that.   And, let's not forget the 2019-2020 team that was in a good position to make a run at a title.

Harvard won it in 88 though and Yale won it in 2013 or 14 though. I understand they have the prestige factor but cornell def gets much more support from the school and fanbase. Also, dont we have somewhat of lower admissions standards when it comes to the academic side of things, which give us a greater talent pool to choose from? Also, im always suspiciois of the ECAC teams when they are ranked high in pairwise. That is to say, i wasnt sure if Cornell would have actually made a credible run in 19-20

I believe it was 1989 for Harvard.   If that's the only Ivy League NCAA Champions (I didn't confirm this), that shows, again, that an NCAA championship for an Ivy League school is difficult to accomplish and makes me worry less about CU not winning it all.   To me, the ECAC title is where it's at.   Yes, I know that it's been 11 years since one of those.   But, I still support Mike.

As an aside, when CU was still playing the "slug-it-out" game (while that rest of college hockey was opening the game up), I was one of those who hoped that Mike would leave.   But, to his credit, Mike has changed their playing style and didn't seem to miss a beat.   Another credit for Mike!   I was clearly wrong.

Does the fact that Yale won it in 2013 doesnt change your view on this? That two ivy teams have won the NCAA title...

I believe Yale was something like 15th in the PWR that year, and just squeaked in--really something of a fluke that they won it.

[Trotsky]

For anyone with more time and energy than I have, I wonder what the winning percentage for each team in the conference is for the last 10 or 15 or 20 or so years.

I bet we're first. Maybe Q has us beat over the last 10?

I have not put 2022 in yet, but here's 2012-2021:

Code Select Expand


[b]Team GP  W  L T GF GA  GM Pts Pct GFA GAA  GMA[/b]
Quinnipiac 216 130 55 31 678 450 228 291 .674 3.14 2.08 1.06
Cornell 198 109 53 36 533 405 128 254 .641 2.69 2.05 0.65
Clarkson 212 103 79 30 571 505  66 236 .557 2.69 2.38 0.31
Union 198 103 72 23 597 496 101 229 .578 3.02 2.51 0.51
Harvard 198 94 70 34 605 491 114 222 .561 3.06 2.48 0.58
Yale 198 96 80 22 561 500  61 214 .540 2.83 2.53 0.31
Colgate 216 83 102 31 510 591 -81 197 .456 2.36 2.74 -0.38
Dartmouth 198 85 94 19 521 604 -83 189 .477 2.63 3.05 -0.42
St. Lawrence 212 75 113 24 540 623 -83 174 .410 2.55 2.94 -0.39
RPI 198 73 100 25 470 552 -82 171 .432 2.37 2.79 -0.41
Brown 198 54 115 29 432 601 -169 137 .346 2.18 3.04 -0.85
Princeton 198 51 123 24 458 648 -190 126 .318 2.31 3.27 -0.96





[Iceberg]

It is now 11 years since the last ECAC title for Cornell. Three titles the last 25 years. Previous worst single gap, 1986-1996, 10 years. The current drought includes three trips to the title game and even Princeton has won more recently than us.

Code Select Expand

[b]Year   Years since ECAC title[/b]
1967 --
1968 1 (1=no gap)
1969 1
1970 1
1973 3
1980 7
1986 6
1996 10
1997 1
2003 6
2005 2
2010 5
2022 11

I know everyone here seems to love Schafer but do you think he is to blame for this?

In a word, "No".

Curious to know why that is? Especially the fact that no NCAA title since the early 70s is astounding to me

Just look at the job he did recovering from the mess that the Ivy League left him (2020-2021).   No titles since the early 70's?    That can be said for most of the Ivy schools.   Has he made the NCAA's often?  Yes.   Moral:  An NCAA title is a long shot for most Ivys.   I'm accepting of this but hope they can do it one more time in my lifetime.   Mike gives them a good chance at that.   And, let's not forget the 2019-2020 team that was in a good position to make a run at a title.

Harvard won it in 88 though and Yale won it in 2013 or 14 though. I understand they have the prestige factor but cornell def gets much more support from the school and fanbase. Also, dont we have somewhat of lower admissions standards when it comes to the academic side of things, which give us a greater talent pool to choose from? Also, im always suspiciois of the ECAC teams when they are ranked high in pairwise. That is to say, i wasnt sure if Cornell would have actually made a credible run in 19-20

I believe it was 1989 for Harvard.   If that's the only Ivy League NCAA Champions (I didn't confirm this), that shows, again, that an NCAA championship for an Ivy League school is difficult to accomplish and makes me worry less about CU not winning it all.   To me, the ECAC title is where it's at.   Yes, I know that it's been 11 years since one of those.   But, I still support Mike.

As an aside, when CU was still playing the "slug-it-out" game (while that rest of college hockey was opening the game up), I was one of those who hoped that Mike would leave.   But, to his credit, Mike has changed their playing style and didn't seem to miss a beat.   Another credit for Mike!   I was clearly wrong.

Does the fact that Yale won it in 2013 doesnt change your view on this? That two ivy teams have won the NCAA title...

I believe Yale was something like 15th in the PWR that year, and just squeaked in--really something of a fluke that they won it.

That Yale team may not have been the best during the regular season that year, or as offensively potent as its predecessors, but their run was legit. That team was speedy and fairly solid defensively. There's a reason they had so many OT wins against good teams, including two in the NCAA's

[Trotsky]

That Yale team may not have been the best during the regular season that year, or as offensively potent as its predecessors, but their run was legit. That team was speedy and fairly solid defensively. There's a reason they had so many OT wins against good teams, including two in the NCAA's

Not to mention that Yale NCAA win came at the end of their stretch of great teams.

They were a solid NCAA Titleist, just as Union was.  And the Harvard and RPI teams that won before them were among the greatest college hockey teams of all time.

[BearLover]

When you consider what he is up against, Schafer is arguably the greatest coach in college hockey. No scholarships, no grad transfers, worse financial aid than the other Ivies, an Ivy League doesn't give a shit about its athletes. Case in point: last year, the Ivies didn't play while 51 other programs did.

Despite all this, Schafer has accomplished NCAA appearances in over half of his seasons (no other ECAC coach can say that), three number 1 seeds (no other ECAC coach can say that), and more ECAC championships than any other school during his tenure. No other ECAC school has experienced this level of sustained success over the past 25 years.

With that said, the lack of tournament success over the past decade is extremely depressing. 2019-20 was IMO the best team of the Schafer era and it didn't get a postseason. Much of that team was still in tact the following season, which the Ivy League canceled. In American sports, fans care about championships. While Cornell was the clear leader in that regard through 2010, since then Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, and Harvard have all won national championships, made multiple title games, or made the frozen four while Cornell has no ECAC championships or frozen fours. I think going forward, Cornell has as good a chance of accomplishing these goals as any other ECAC program, but the randomness of hockey and the advances of rival programs means it could be a very long time before they happen. That's no knock against Schafer, just the reality of hockey and what he's up against.

[blackwidow]

When you consider what he is up against, Schafer is arguably the greatest coach in college hockey. No scholarships, no grad transfers, worse financial aid than the other Ivies, an Ivy League doesn't give a shit about its athletes. Case in point: last year, the Ivies didn't play while 51 other programs did.

Despite all this, Schafer has accomplished NCAA appearances in over half of his seasons (no other ECAC coach can say that), three number 1 seeds (no other ECAC coach can say that), and more ECAC championships than any other school during his tenure. No other ECAC school has experienced this level of sustained success over the past 25 years.

With that said, the lack of tournament success over the past decade is extremely depressing. 2019-20 was IMO the best team of the Schafer era and it didn't get a postseason. Much of that team was still in tact the following season, which the Ivy League canceled. In American sports, fans care about championships. While Cornell was the clear leader in that regard through 2010, since then Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, and Harvard have all won national championships, made multiple title games, or made the frozen four while Cornell has no ECAC championships or frozen fours. I think going forward, Cornell has as good a chance of accomplishing these goals as any other ECAC program, but the randomness of hockey and the advances of rival programs means it could be a very long time before they happen. That's no knock against Schafer, just the reality of hockey and what he's up against.

Can one or a group of alums start a foundation to make the cornell program financially more attractive to potential recruits? Not sure how it would work with the NCAA rules. (Maybe a company of sorts to help them profit from their likeness and image rights etc that almost guarantee them getting paid in meaningful ways)

[billhoward]

We've been talking about how few Ivy teams have won the NCAAs since 1970. We're in the ECAC as well as the Ivy League and there's also RPI and Union, neither of them academic slouches, who've won titles. I would like to see Clarkson win Saturday over Quinnipiac and both go to the NCAAs. (Clarkson may have to win both games to go.) Q has a chance to go all the way. We may not like Q but they are in our (athletic) league and an NCAA title benefits all 12 schools. I'd root for Q every step of the way until the point they come against Clarkson. You want another title for North Dakota or Minnesota?

[RichH]

When you consider what he is up against, Schafer is arguably the greatest coach in college hockey. No scholarships, no grad transfers, worse financial aid than the other Ivies, an Ivy League doesn't give a shit about its athletes. Case in point: last year, the Ivies didn't play while 51 other programs did.

Despite all this, Schafer has accomplished NCAA appearances in over half of his seasons (no other ECAC coach can say that), three number 1 seeds (no other ECAC coach can say that), and more ECAC championships than any other school during his tenure. No other ECAC school has experienced this level of sustained success over the past 25 years.

With that said, the lack of tournament success over the past decade is extremely depressing. 2019-20 was IMO the best team of the Schafer era and it didn't get a postseason. Much of that team was still in tact the following season, which the Ivy League canceled. In American sports, fans care about championships. While Cornell was the clear leader in that regard through 2010, since then Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, and Harvard have all won national championships, made multiple title games, or made the frozen four while Cornell has no ECAC championships or frozen fours. I think going forward, Cornell has as good a chance of accomplishing these goals as any other ECAC program, but the randomness of hockey and the advances of rival programs means it could be a very long time before they happen. That's no knock against Schafer, just the reality of hockey and what he's up against.

This is well put overall. I imagine a Clarkson fan reading this thread and shaking their head. (But also at the same time, enjoying the schadenfreude.)

Look. Michigan is considered by many to be one of the most successful hallmark franchises of all time. Red Berenson is a giant of the sport and a legend. Red took the Wolverines to the NCAA Tournament 23 times (22 consecutive). He won it all TWICE out of those 23 chances, and both finals were won in overtime. It's really hard to win it all, even if you're a big jock factory with scholarships and even then it takes a lot of bounces to go your way. Nevermind the Ivies, the current ECAC as a league can only claim 4 titles in 35 years of play since the split. Schafer-led teams have given us more years to dream it's possible than not. Throw in the incredible job Doug Derraugh has done in shaping the women's program, and I'm just plain proud of being able to watch these teams during this era. I hope it will happen someday, and that's all I can do.

[BearLover]

We've been talking about how few Ivy teams have won the NCAAs since 1970. We're in the ECAC as well as the Ivy League and there's also RPI and Union, neither of them academic slouches, who've won titles. I would like to see Clarkson win Saturday over Quinnipiac and both go to the NCAAs. (Clarkson may have to win both games to go.) Q has a chance to go all the way. We may not like Q but they are in our (athletic) league and an NCAA title benefits all 12 schools. I'd root for Q every step of the way until the point they come against Clarkson. You want another title for North Dakota or Minnesota?

Correct. I'd much rather North Dakota or Minnesota win. I don't want our direct rivals winning championships. Cornell has been good for song long (during which time teams like Q and Clarkson have largely wallowed in mediocrity) that it would absolutely suck if yet another one of our rivals won it all before we did.

[Al DeFlorio]

We've been talking about how few Ivy teams have won the NCAAs since 1970. We're in the ECAC as well as the Ivy League and there's also RPI and Union, neither of them academic slouches, who've won titles. I would like to see Clarkson win Saturday over Quinnipiac and both go to the NCAAs. (Clarkson may have to win both games to go.) Q has a chance to go all the way. We may not like Q but they are in our (athletic) league and an NCAA title benefits all 12 schools. I'd root for Q every step of the way until the point they come against Clarkson. You want another title for North Dakota or Minnesota?

Correct. I'd much rather North Dakota or Minnesota win. I don't want our direct rivals winning championships. Cornell has been good for song long (during which time teams like Q and Clarkson have largely wallowed in mediocrity) that it would absolutely suck if yet another one of our rivals won it all before we did.

::doh::Mind-boggling logic.  We saw this same bizarre thinking when Yale won it all.  How dominant they've become since.::rolleyes::

Go ECAC!  Always.

[billhoward]

I think going forward, Cornell has as good a chance of accomplishing these goals as any other ECAC program, but the randomness of hockey and the advances of rival programs means it could be a very long time before they happen. That's no knock against Schafer, just the reality of hockey and what he's up against.

Look. Michigan is considered by many to be one of the most successful hallmark franchises of all time. Red Berenson is a giant of the sport and a legend. Red took the Wolverines to the NCAA Tournament 23 times (22 consecutive). He won it all TWICE out of those 23 chances, and both finals were won in overtime. It's really hard to win it all ... Schafer-led teams have given us more years to dream it's possible than not. Throw in the incredible job Doug Derraugh has done in shaping the women's program, and I'm just plain proud of being able to watch these teams during this era. I hope it will happen someday, and that's all I can do.

Nicely put. Randomness and luck plays such a big role. It's still fun to watch. End of Friday night's game against Colgate, as the team went off the ice and only the coaches were on the bench, Schafer turned to the crowd and gave a little waist-level hand wave. So nice.

[BearLover]

We've been talking about how few Ivy teams have won the NCAAs since 1970. We're in the ECAC as well as the Ivy League and there's also RPI and Union, neither of them academic slouches, who've won titles. I would like to see Clarkson win Saturday over Quinnipiac and both go to the NCAAs. (Clarkson may have to win both games to go.) Q has a chance to go all the way. We may not like Q but they are in our (athletic) league and an NCAA title benefits all 12 schools. I'd root for Q every step of the way until the point they come against Clarkson. You want another title for North Dakota or Minnesota?

Correct. I'd much rather North Dakota or Minnesota win. I don't want our direct rivals winning championships. Cornell has been good for song long (during which time teams like Q and Clarkson have largely wallowed in mediocrity) that it would absolutely suck if yet another one of our rivals won it all before we did.

::doh::Mind-boggling logic.  We saw this same bizarre thinking when Yale won it all.  How dominant they've become since.::rolleyes::

Go ECAC!  Always.

I didn't say anything above about programs becoming dominant. I said it's excruciating to watch your biggest rivals, who are nowhere near as deserving, win it all before you do. Also, sports fans root against their rivals. It's pretty simple logic (to the extent sports fandom is logical) that carries over to most other fandoms. Do Giants fans root for the Eagles, Cowboys, and Washington Commanders after they've been eliminated? No, they obviously do not do that because they are normal sports fans.

Though, since you brought up dominance, maybe we should revisit the "rising tide lifts all boats" theory that everyone on this forum was positing when Yale won. Has Cornell won more ECAC championships and NCAA games before, or after, the rise of Yale, Union, Q?

[osorojo]

As a member of the class of '64 I was privileged to enjoy the first and most spectacularly successful decade of Cornell hockey. Those early teams had nowhere to go but up, and did they ever! The past few seasons of Cornell hockey have placed the team in a similar position. The new decade should be a beauty!

[upprdeck]

look at bball Gonz has probably been the most consistent high ranked team other than maybe duke/kansas for about 20 yrs and has nothing to show for it in a sport where the top teams do often win it . Hockey the gap is smaller and even pretty bad teams beat really good ones all the time.  the 40th best hockey team would be like the 150th best bball team and you rarely see that upset in bball but you see it all the time in hockey..  low scoring games lend itself more to luck.