Polls

[osorojo]

Numerous D-1 college athletic programs have ignored academic standards while enrolling athletes, yet their school's academic programs have survived. College athletes generate piles of cash to fund higher education, and seldom is there any mention of academic failure of students recruited for their physical rather than mental ability.

[George64]

The Mayhem Guy doesn't belong in that list.  He's the best.

Agreed!
.

[Trotsky]

Numerous D-1 college athletic programs have ignored academic standards while enrolling athletes, yet their school's academic programs have survived. College athletes generate piles of cash to fund higher education, and seldom is there any mention of academic failure of students recruited for their physical rather than mental ability.

But the Ivies fetishized it.

Anybody who taught or even TAed at Duke and Stanford knows how laughable their claims are that their athletes are serious students. They survive in large part because the gen pop does not care and ESPN et al willingly repeat bullshit stories of them "doing it the right way" uncritically because, again, they don't care.

The Ivies have a lot less room because undercutting their athletes is a tangible part of their designer label.  It would be much harder for us to get away with cheating because, unlike those other factory schools, there is a lot of media interest in catching us out when we are hypocritical.  

Which is good.  It just makes it harder for us to sneak absolute derps through our athletic programs.

Not that we haven't -- we just do it maybe 20% of the time as opposed to the "quality" schools where it's 50% or the SEC where it's an admission requirement.

Mostly we cheat for daddy's money, not a blue chippah slap shot.  Dammit.

[Swampy]

Numerous D-1 college athletic programs have ignored academic standards while enrolling athletes, yet their school's academic programs have survived. College athletes generate piles of cash to fund higher education, and seldom is there any mention of academic failure of students recruited for their physical rather than mental ability.

I'm not sure how accurate this is. University of Florida's football team's budget is over $90M, yet ordinary students complain about their facilities:

Olivia Giovenco, a 19-year-old English sophomore, recalls hearing about the horrors of living in disheveled dorms like Rawlings Hall. In her view, it's unfair that the university prioritizes the well-being of a small percentage of students over the entire student body, she said.

And to extrapolate Trotsky's statement about Duke and Stanford, anybody who's even sat it a classroom at a factory school that's not among the so-called "elite," like Duke or Stanford -- "weathervane schools," for example -- knows how laughable their claims are that even the majority of their ordinary students are serious students.

[billhoward]

The quality or lack of in Olivia Giovenco's dorm at U Florida is not going to lure prospective students. There were problems with mold related sickness. Other students said they were happy with that diagnosis b/c it meant: We don't have Covid.

Maybe Gov. DiSantis can allocate more funds for better residential living there.

[Trotsky]

And to extrapolate Trotsky's statement about Duke and Stanford, anybody who's even sat it a classroom at a factory school that's not among the so-called "elite," like Duke or Stanford -- "weathervane schools," for example -- knows how laughable their claims are that even the majority of their ordinary students are serious students.

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

[Iceberg]

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

I can think of quite a few people at Cornell who came from a CC, were fine students, and are doing quite well for themselves now

[jtwcornell91]

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

I can think of quite a few people at Cornell who came from a CC, were fine students, and are doing quite well for themselves now

I was gonna say, another reason CCs are full of serious students is that many of them are working up to transfer to a four-year college for the last two years of a bachelor's degree.

[Weder]

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

I can think of quite a few people at Cornell who came from a CC, were fine students, and are doing quite well for themselves now

I was gonna say, another reason CCs are full of serious students is that many of them are working up to transfer to a four-year college for the last two years of a bachelor's degree.

It's also really smart from a financial standpoint!

[Swampy]

And to extrapolate Trotsky's statement about Duke and Stanford, anybody who's even sat it a classroom at a factory school that's not among the so-called "elite," like Duke or Stanford -- "weathervane schools," for example -- knows how laughable their claims are that even the majority of their ordinary students are serious students.

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

Do you think this is also true of someone studying marketing?

[Trotsky]

And to extrapolate Trotsky's statement about Duke and Stanford, anybody who's even sat it a classroom at a factory school that's not among the so-called "elite," like Duke or Stanford -- "weathervane schools," for example -- knows how laughable their claims are that even the majority of their ordinary students are serious students.

OTOH, the most serious students I've ever seen at any school are Community College students, because they're paying out of their own pocket.  If you're studying Philosophy at a CC it's because you fucking want it.  it's not just a credential you're picking up between frat parties on your way to working at Dad's firm.

Do you think this is also true of someone studying marketing?

No.  They suck.

[adamw]

so many myths in this thread ...

at the risk of being accused of being a shill for the NCAA ... the average NCAA athlete's academic performance is superior to the general population.

As I've said high and wide everywhere I can and will continue to say it ...

Those advocating for "students rights" and "fu** those who have been hoarding the money" -- ought to be VERY careful what they wish for. The entire system of college sports is about to fall apart -- in particular once the Supreme Court rules that athletes are "employees" ... a preposterous notion to me. You may say "great, the NCAA sucks" -- except that it doesn't suck for 99% of the athletes across all sports and divisions whose programs aren't making any money, and whose student-athletes are getting great opportunities.

If you want that all to go away in the name of "students rights to make money"" -- have at it. But know what you're wishing for.

[Trotsky]

the average NCAA athlete's academic performance is superior to the general population.

Huh.  Where there is great institutional pressure to keep athletes eligible, they get better grades than other students.  Go figure.

Next you'll be saying Prep School kids get better grades than students at public high schools.  I just cannot imagine why.

[Dafatone]

so many myths in this thread ...

at the risk of being accused of being a shill for the NCAA ... the average NCAA athlete's academic performance is superior to the general population.

As I've said high and wide everywhere I can and will continue to say it ...

Those advocating for "students rights" and "fu** those who have been hoarding the money" -- ought to be VERY careful what they wish for. The entire system of college sports is about to fall apart -- in particular once the Supreme Court rules that athletes are "employees" ... a preposterous notion to me. You may say "great, the NCAA sucks" -- except that it doesn't suck for 99% of the athletes across all sports and divisions whose programs aren't making any money, and whose student-athletes are getting great opportunities.

If you want that all to go away in the name of "students rights to make money"" -- have at it. But know what you're wishing for.

On one hand, I'm generally on the side you describe. At the very least, I think we don't need rules for what students can do, and if that means the richest schools shovel piles of money at the best athletes, so be it. Cracking down on students because they tried to release a rap album or whatever is bad.

On the other hand, as I understand it, the NCAA isn't really a "thing." They're just the schools. Every time you hear someone describing the NCAA as greedy, they're just talking about the schools. I don't think there's a big vault full of cash that belongs to the NCAA.

[Trotsky]

On the other hand, as I understand it, the NCAA isn't really a "thing." They're just the schools. Every time you hear someone describing the NCAA as greedy, they're just talking about the schools. I don't think there's a big vault full of cash that belongs to the NCAA.

I think of it as an industry lobby like the AMA, NRA, or the Chamber of Commerce.  The NC$$ was formed to evade federal regulation, and like any trade organization they exist to further the interests of their most powerful brokers while fucking the life out of everyone else involved.  So while it's true that the NC$$ is not itself a thing that is getting rich, it is the sock puppet of those who are getting very rich.  And as such an entity, it is utterly without conscience or morals or any other guidance than the benefit of those who can swing it as a cudgel.