Cornell lacrosse 2018

[underskill]

well NYC does have the Ivy lax basis on Wall Street for one thing...

[Beeeej]

well NYC does have the Ivy lax basis on Wall Street for one thing...

...of which most members have no intention of being at 218th Street on a Friday night or Sunday afternoon regardless of why, except perhaps Princeton alums (whose team was not represented). I'd bet good money most of the non-Cornell crowd was parents and die-hards.

[Trotsky]

I just have a hard time understanding why they thought New York City would be a good idea when Columbia has no varsity men's lacrosse team (N.B. - they have a varsity women's team). Geographic center of the league? Maybe. But if there's a bright center to the Ivy League lacrosse community, you're on the planet it's farthest from.

The geographic center of the Ivy League, hilariously and fittingly, is Danbury.

[billhoward]

No way in hell there was 2600 fans in the stands.  Huge failure having the ILT in NYC

NYC is a great neutral site. If the home team loses the Friday game, ain't gonna be no turnout Sunday. If Wall Streeters are so tough, let them prove it by taking the subway home after the late game.

Remember that the Big Ten (sorry, B1G, which sounds like it's honoring a dead rapper) held it at Michigan and drew 1200. Cripe, more turn out for spring football practice.

[CAS]

Attended both games.  Lot of Cornell supporters both days.  Great Cornell tailgate Friday nite, w/ribs from Dinosaur BBQ.  Hope tourney remains there.  Much better than Ivy hoops tourney at the Palestra, where Penn gets unfair advantage.

[mountainred]

Taking the reported attendance numbers at face value, it was the best attended ILT ever.  There were slightly more than 5000 fans for both games and only the first tournament (in Ithaca and featuring a final between Cornell and Princeton, both in the top 10) cracked four thousand.  The pattern -- and the ILT is old enough to say there's a pattern -- is that the home team draws 1500 to 2000 for its games and a neutral field final (i.e. home team loses in the semis) draws about a 1000.  Frankly, I'm not sure anyone should have reasonably expected more this year.

CAS, I agree that having the hoops tournament at Penn is an unfair advantage for the Quakers, but it is probably the best option as long as the league insists on holding the men's and women's ILT at the same venue.  The Palestra is the best venue in the league and the crowd at any professional arena would be embarrassingly small.  Ivy fans, with a few noted exceptions, just don't travel.  But that is a conversation for another day and chain.

[scoop85]

I wasn't able to make the games, although I was in NYC last weekend for another long-planned event.  Selfishly I like the idea of having it at Columbia since I'm just an hour away, and I would certainly plan on being there next year if we're in the ILT (which by all rights we should be given the amount of talent coming back).

[BearLover]

Were any ELFers at the league tournament games?  I read that the final had ~2600 fans.  That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York.  How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Haha, I'm not sure these four sentences are entirely consistent.

[djk26]

Thanks for the info on the attendance at the games, everyone.  I'm sorry I wasn't able to go, sounds like it was a fun time.  As much as I would love to see Cornell play in front of huge crowds (might help with recruiting), it's just a fact that lacrosse isn't really in the popular imagination of Joe Average Fan.  Still, I love watching it, and there are many other that do, too.

As mentioned upthread, if the Ivy League does care about growing the sport, absolutely offer free tickets to the youth programs around NYC.  Having those kids see Ivy League schools and what that's about--I just think it's good for everyone.

[ugarte]

Were any ELFers at the league tournament games?  I read that the final had ~2600 fans.  That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York.  How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Haha, I'm not sure these four sentences are entirely consistent.

I think the takeaway is "it was boring because  in a low-action game against a low offense opponent the victory never really seemed in doubt but still uncomfortable because the thought of a fluky three goal run ending Cornell's season was lingering the whole time."

[jeff '84]

Were any ELFers at the league tournament games?  I read that the final had ~2600 fans.  That must have been below what the league wanted by having the games in New York.  How was the atmosphere? Was this experiment less than successful?

I was there.

On Friday night initially I was sitting in the midst of a bunch of Yale supporters. I was quite happy with this, as I thought Yale would be a better Sunday opponent for Cornell's chance to dance. It was quite cordial and spirited. Of course Yale crushed Penn, so one would expect a celebratory mood in the area for most of the game.

Then, most of the Yale supporters left, and the area around me was filled in with Cornell supporters. So I felt quite at home. I was happy to see the Cornell band was there -- the only band I noticed from the four schools. But the acoustics sucked. I couldn't even hear them playing "Davey." (But maybe that's just my aged hearing.) The mood was joyous, partly because Cornell led most of the game and was clearly better than Brown. But while Brown's tactic of face-guarding Teat and Cornell's willingness to allow it stirred up some conversation, it also made for a subdued atmosphere. With Brown trailing by only a couple of goals, there was a constant fear of disaster. Compared to Sunday's game, it was quite boring.

Sunday was a different matter. Cornell fans occupied what seemed to be about half the stands on the east side of the stadium (not to capacity), and I assumed Yale fans had similar occupancy at the other end of the field. With Cornell spanking Yale, the atmosphere near me was great. Lots of high-fives, organized cheers, standing ovations, etc. But I didn't see or hear any bands: I don't know if this was a matter of acoustics, with the bands at the other end of the field, or if no bands showed up for the game. There was no standing for the alma mater at halftime, so I assume it was the latter. Curious.

According to Wikipedia, the stadium's capacity is 17,000. But they only allowed seating on one side, which holds 10,500. This side has two distinct characteristics: it has a section having seats with backs and arms, and it is where the officials' table was set up. The stadium staff did not enforce tickets for the fancy seats (at least not on Sunday), so I was very happy I had sprung only for GA but was able to upgrade the seating on Sunday when I showed up with grand kids. (Ivy students got in for free, but the ticketing staff wouldn't take the eleven-year-old's statement that he gets all A's on his report card as proof he goes to Harvard. Damn!) The officials' table was at the midfield stripe and in a canopy tent, which blocked the view of the field from the stands. So most fans sat around the forty-yard lines rather than at midfield.

As for success, I'm not sure what the Ivy League's goals were, so it's hard to say. Because fans left/arrived on Friday night, at any one time there would be fewer people than total attendance. On Sunday there was good Cornell attendance, about double of what I usually see at the away games I attend. (I live too far from Ithaca to go to home games.) But it's hard to assess total attendance from one's seat, and besides I'm not really skilled at making crowd-size estimates.

I watched the championship game on TV, and the announcers made the case that the league should continue the experiment for at least five years. Certainly some bugs can be worked out, and very little marketing was done this time. (How is it the Ivy League can't afford decent marketing?) So there is room for improvement. I was surprised to learn there are several nascent youth lacrosse organizations in the five boroughs, and if the sport keeps on growing this youth contingent should be substantially larger. (I think they also got in free.) Unfortunately, I think geography and within-school popularity of the sport will have a strong impact on future attendance: imagine a Penn-Dartmouth final.

I was there Sunday as well, and agree with Swampy's writeup. I thought it was a good venue and a fun atmosphere. The band was definitely missed though. Thoughts on why Columbia doesn't have a team?

[Beeeej]

I was there Sunday as well, and agree with Swampy's writeup. I thought it was a good venue and a fun atmosphere. The band was definitely missed though. Thoughts on why Columbia doesn't have a team?

As much historical accident as anything - but one of the biggest reasons they don't plan to add a team is that it would pretty much kill their Title IX compliance.

[margolism]

I was there with my son on Sunday.  The Yale fans sitting near us came across as a bit rude and cocky at first, and peaking once Yale was up by two.  

From that point they got progressively more quiet, and were near silent in the second half.

The Pulver long distance goal drained any hope and enthusiasm they had remaining.

[upprdeck]

Columbia could add a team and adjust the added womens teams to offset it..  considering no scholie money in the ivys and the fact they can bus to almost every Lax game  they would want to play it would be a huge increase in money for the Ath dept. budget

[Beeeej]

Columbia could add a team and adjust the added womens teams to offset it..  considering no scholie money in the ivys and the fact they can bus to almost every Lax game  they would want to play it would be a huge increase in money for the Ath dept. budget

First of all, Title IX requires that you either be at gender equity or moving toward it, and Columbia - like most D-I schools - is not at gender equity. So since adding a men's team and a women's team at the same time doesn't move them toward gender equity, it's not really a viable move. (Believe me, I had this conversation with the AD at the time when I worked there.)

Second, it sounds like you're suggesting that adding men's lacrosse plus some other random women's sport to be determined later (if it were a viable move within Title IX constraints) would be a huge revenue boon to Columbia simply because they wouldn't be giving those athletes scholarships. I really hope you were being sarcastic, because if not I'm worried for your sanity.