Commence Complaining

[CAS]

Much easier to raise money for a winning program than an uncompetitive one.  Also there's no reason you can't be successful in both the "big 4" & the other teams.  Look at Princeton & Harvard.

[upprdeck]

cornell won some titles in spite of how poorly the AD is being run.. disorganized would be saying it mildly.  Hockey which brings in more money than anything gets the shaft and that is one reason they havent done as well as in the past.  we are not keeping up and that is the ADs fault.

[Weder]

I'm not sure what you mean by ratios of titles. Do you mean #titles/#sports?

Here's a metric I'd like to see.  Firstly, drop individual titles.  For every team that competes at varsity, take the number of all the teams that could win the "championship" and add it to the denominator.  If you win the championship, also add it to the numerator.  Do that for every school in the NC$$.

So, for example, Cornell hockey competes for two championships (sorry, Ivies): ECAC (12) and NCAA (60, I think?).  Cornell football only competes for Ivy (.  Cornell basketball competes for Ivy ( and NCAA (240-something I think).  And so on.

Now obviously we're going to get destroyed compared to factory schools like Stanford, but if we just take the Ivies all those NCAA zeros are going to wash out.

This is sort of what the Directors' Cup attempts to do, although there's still a big edge given to schools that finish first or second in a sport with a small number of participating teams. Last year, Stanford finished first. Princeton was the top Ivy at No. 33, and Cornell was No. 81 out of 295 (fifth-best showing by an Ivy).

[George64]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I can see a lot of ways to hide unflattering results in those sentences.  Just off the top of my head I'd prefer to see ratios of titles rather than absolute numbers, and I'd like to see the numbers cross-tabbed by sport.

[abmarks]

cornell won some titles in spite of how poorly the AD is being run.. disorganized would be saying it mildly.  Hockey which brings in more money than anything gets the shaft and that is one reason they havent done as well as in the past.  we are not keeping up and that is the ADs fault.

sl

Shafted how exactly?

(Not arguing against the point. More in the vein of please elaborate with details)

[RichH]

Eh. The guy is a jerk.

[upprdeck]

cornell won some titles in spite of how poorly the AD is being run.. disorganized would be saying it mildly.  Hockey which brings in more money than anything gets the shaft and that is one reason they havent done as well as in the past.  we are not keeping up and that is the ADs fault.

sl

Shafted how exactly?

(Not arguing against the point. More in the vein of please elaborate with details)

maybe you should ask why recruiting isnt as good as we would like. you think alabama football generates 90% of the athletic revenue stream and then puts nobe of it back into the fball program.

[Beeeej]

Folks - no matter what else you might think of him or his "job performance" in terms of championships, the guy's a world-class fundraiser. That's a very important factor to those making the decisions about whether he stays or goes.

[CAS]

Beeej, do you know how out athletic fundraising compares with the other Ivies?  Given we have the highest undergrad enrollment in the Ivies, do we raise more money for athletics than these schools?  Given the state of our football facilities & some of what Dave Archer has said about the material underfunding of football, I doubt it.

[Jim Hyla]

Beeej, do you know how out athletic fundraising compares with the other Ivies?  Given we have the highest undergrad enrollment in the Ivies, do we raise more money for athletics than these schools?  Given the state of our football facilities & some of what Dave Archer has said about the material underfunding of football, I doubt it.

Hell, considering our alumni numbers we should always out fund-raise the other Ivies in all areas. But we don't. I often wonder how many people who complain actually get involved and try and make things better.

Much like elections, where 50% don't vote, but man I sure know some that can complain.

[CAS]

I've seen some athletic fundraising numbers for smaller Ivies who raise more money than we do.  If you don't make changes to something where you've materially underperformed over a long period, how do you expect to improve?  Of couse nothing on elynah changes anything. But thank you Age anyway!

[Rosey]

Beeej, do you know how out athletic fundraising compares with the other Ivies?  Given we have the highest undergrad enrollment in the Ivies, do we raise more money for athletics than these schools?  Given the state of our football facilities & some of what Dave Archer has said about the material underfunding of football, I doubt it.

Hell, considering our alumni numbers we should always out fund-raise the other Ivies in all areas. But we don't. I often wonder how many people who complain actually get involved and try and make thinks better.

I strongly suspect the lower giving rates overall from Cornell alumni are a structural problem that is much larger than athletics. I don't regard my own behavior (never given money to Cornell outside of the hockey team or pep band because of dissatisfaction with profit-driven higher education in general) as representative of attitudes toward giving in general, but I do occasionally wonder what sets of things Cornell does to its students that result in so many people throwing the fund drive letters into the recycle bin without opening them up.

[Trotsky]

I'm not sure what you mean by ratios of titles. Do you mean #titles/#sports?

Here's a metric I'd like to see.  Firstly, drop individual titles.  For every team that competes at varsity, take the number of all the teams that could win the "championship" and add it to the denominator.  If you win the championship, also add it to the numerator.  Do that for every school in the NC$$.

So, for example, Cornell hockey competes for two championships (sorry, Ivies): ECAC (12) and NCAA (60, I think?).  Cornell football only competes for Ivy (.  Cornell basketball competes for Ivy ( and NCAA (240-something I think).  And so on.

Now obviously we're going to get destroyed compared to factory schools like Stanford, but if we just take the Ivies all those NCAA zeros are going to wash out.

This is sort of what the Directors' Cup attempts to do, although there's still a big edge given to schools that finish first or second in a sport with a small number of participating teams. Last year, Stanford finished first. Princeton was the top Ivy at No. 33, and Cornell was No. 81 out of 295 (fifth-best showing by an Ivy).

Cool.  The next step is to look at how Cornell did without Andy and then with him.  That will give some indication whether he's producing successful teams.

[Hooking]

I  would wager the recent Ivy Championships vaguely mentioned are not so much skewed by sport as by gender. Equality is not a bad thing nor is excellence, in both academics and sports.

[Hooking]

I would wager recent unidentified Ivy League sports titles are skewed more by gender than by sport. Equality is a good thing and so is excellence, in both academics and sports.