Commence Complaining

[ugarte]

Andy Noel's contract extended for 6 years.

[Trotsky]

Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.

[upprdeck]

Must be the rush to get it done before the new person has a chance to kill the deal.. but why a 6 yr deal?  Athletics as a whole are so screwed up its crazy

[nshapiro]

Maybe it should be a tenured position so we have him forever::yark::

[Jim Hyla]

Must be the rush to get it done before the new person has a chance to kill the deal.. but why a 6 yr deal?  Athletics as a whole are so screwed up its crazy

Maybe they looked at what he's accomplished. Much of our complaints are like those of the former AD at SU.

If we, for now, set aside the legitimate complaint of the NCAA problems, for which Gross lost his AD job, the complaints centered on the lousy football team. Now if that's what you care about, it's major. However if you care about the totality of the student-athlete population, he did a wonderful job. His success in other sports was major. From women's b'ball Final Four to men's soccer NCAA semis to championships in field hockey, he put the non-revenue sports on solid footing.

Much of the same can be said of Noel. Sure he has a wrestling bent, that should not be a surprise. Sure we want better football and b'ball, but he has also helped the "other" sports.

I suspect when administration looks at his performance they look at all student athletes, those in NCAA sports and those who just want to play and get exercise. They must have felt that the totality of work was good.

[Trotsky]

I think he just comes cheap.  Don't over think it.

[CAS]

Cornell has 37 teams.  Which "other" sports has Andy helped, and in what way?  Of the higher profile teams (football, hockey, basketball, lacrosse), how have we performed in the last 5 years?  Is there any evidence the administration cares about athletics?

[Jim Hyla]

Cornell has 37 teams.  Which "other" sports has Andy helped, and in what way?  Of the higher profile teams (football, hockey, basketball, lacrosse), how have we performed in the last 5 years?  Is there any evidence the administration cares about athletics?

It's not hard to get the info. From his bio:

"The Big Red teams have parlayed Noel's accomplishments into success on and off the playing field. Cornell's athletic teams have won 92 Ivy League team titles and 30 national championships (14 team, 16 individual) during his tenure. The program captured 31 Ivy titles during a four-year span from 2002-03 through 2005-06, setting a Cornell record dating back to the inception of the Ivy League, including a record nine in 2005-06. Cornell has won at least six Ivy titles in 11 of the last 14 seasons after hitting that mark just three times in the first 46 years of Ancient Eight competition."

I think that speaks for itself. And no, I'm not going to look back and name each of the teams. I think the last sentence is enough evidence. If he's done better for total team titles than prior ADs, it seems that should be enough info.

[Trotsky]

Cornell has 37 teams.  Which "other" sports has Andy helped, and in what way?  Of the higher profile teams (football, hockey, basketball, lacrosse), how have we performed in the last 5 years?  Is there any evidence the administration cares about athletics?

It's not hard to get the info. From his bio:

"The Big Red teams have parlayed Noel's accomplishments into success on and off the playing field. Cornell's athletic teams have won 92 Ivy League team titles and 30 national championships (14 team, 16 individual) during his tenure. The program captured 31 Ivy titles during a four-year span from 2002-03 through 2005-06, setting a Cornell record dating back to the inception of the Ivy League, including a record nine in 2005-06. Cornell has won at least six Ivy titles in 11 of the last 14 seasons after hitting that mark just three times in the first 46 years of Ancient Eight competition."

I think that speaks for itself. And no, I'm not going to look back and name each of the teams. I think the last sentence is enough evidence. If he's done better for total team titles than prior ADs, it seems that should be enough info.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I can see a lot of ways to hide unflattering results in those sentences.  Just off the top of my head I'd prefer to see ratios of titles rather than absolute numbers, and I'd like to see the numbers cross-tabbed by sport.  For all we know most of that success has come on the mat (mats?).

Personally I just want to see hockey win.  Compared to that, the rest of athletics (the entire school, to be honest) means fuck all to me. ::cheer::

[CAS]

In the last 2 years, Cornell has won a combined total of 5 Ivy titles.  Only Columbia has won fewer.  Have we won in something other than wrestling or track?  And no titles in the sports most of us care about.

[Jim Hyla]

Cornell has 37 teams.  Which "other" sports has Andy helped, and in what way?  Of the higher profile teams (football, hockey, basketball, lacrosse), how have we performed in the last 5 years?  Is there any evidence the administration cares about athletics?

It's not hard to get the info. From his bio:

"The Big Red teams have parlayed Noel's accomplishments into success on and off the playing field. Cornell's athletic teams have won 92 Ivy League team titles and 30 national championships (14 team, 16 individual) during his tenure. The program captured 31 Ivy titles during a four-year span from 2002-03 through 2005-06, setting a Cornell record dating back to the inception of the Ivy League, including a record nine in 2005-06. Cornell has won at least six Ivy titles in 11 of the last 14 seasons after hitting that mark just three times in the first 46 years of Ancient Eight competition."

I think that speaks for itself. And no, I'm not going to look back and name each of the teams. I think the last sentence is enough evidence. If he's done better for total team titles than prior ADs, it seems that should be enough info.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I can see a lot of ways to hide unflattering results in those sentences.  Just off the top of my head I'd prefer to see ratios of titles rather than absolute numbers, and I'd like to see the numbers cross-tabbed by sport.  For all we know most of that success has come on the mat (mats?).

Personally I just want to see hockey win.  Compared to that, the rest of athletics (the entire school, to be honest) means fuck all to me. ::cheer::

I'm not sure what you mean by ratios of titles. Do you mean #titles/#sports? If so, we do have more teams now, especially more women's sports compared to the dark ages. So that could double the sports, not likely, but it would take more work than I want to put into this.

But here's another quote from the bio: "Cornell's athletic teams have won 92 Ivy League team titles and 30 national championships (14 team, 16 individual) during his tenure."

The idea is that the overall athletic program hasn't done poorly under him, even if you don't want to say it has done well.

Yes I want the hockey program to do well, that's why I support it in many ways. But if I had to choose between having many students in many sports, most of which I don't care about, do well and the major ones lagging, versus the opposite; well I'd have to go with the former. I'd guess that many, if not most, of the board members feel in a similar way.

In the last 2 years, Cornell has won a combined total of 5 Ivy titles. Only Columbia has won fewer. Have we won in something other than wrestling or track? And no titles in the sports most of us care about.

I spoke to some of this already, but taking a sample of 2 is hardly valid.

If you want to know what titles we have won, you can look them up. It can't be that hard.

[Trotsky]

I'm not sure what you mean by ratios of titles. Do you mean #titles/#sports?

Here's a metric I'd like to see.  Firstly, drop individual titles.  For every team that competes at varsity, take the number of all the teams that could win the "championship" and add it to the denominator.  If you win the championship, also add it to the numerator.  Do that for every school in the NC$$.

So, for example, Cornell hockey competes for two championships (sorry, Ivies): ECAC (12) and NCAA (60, I think?).  Cornell football only competes for Ivy (.  Cornell basketball competes for Ivy ( and NCAA (240-something I think).  And so on.

Now obviously we're going to get destroyed compared to factory schools like Stanford, but if we just take the Ivies all those NCAA zeros are going to wash out.

[CAS]

11 consecutive losing Ivy football seasons.  6 consecutive losing basketball seasons.  4 consecutive hockey seasons without an NCAA tourney bid.  An incredible 1-win Ivy lacrosse season.  Yes we have some successful programs in sports other Ivies don't care much about. But don't know how you can spin the performance of our athletic dept as being acceptable.

[Trotsky]

11 consecutive losing Ivy football seasons.  6 consecutive losing basketball seasons.  4 consecutive hockey seasons without an NCAA tourney bid.  An incredible 1-win Ivy lacrosse season.  Yes we have some successful programs in sports other Ivies don't care much about. But don't know how you can spin the performance of our athletic dept as being acceptable.

"But the money kept rolling in."  

And I think that's probably the sole criterion.

[Jim Hyla]

11 consecutive losing Ivy football seasons.  6 consecutive losing basketball seasons.  4 consecutive hockey seasons without an NCAA tourney bid.  An incredible 1-win Ivy lacrosse season.  Yes we have some successful programs in sports other Ivies don't care much about. But don't know how you can spin the performance of our athletic dept as being acceptable.

I'm not spinning it. Rather I've been saying that there is another way of looking at the athletic department, than just the "big 4" that you mentioned. Many Ivy alums, students, and those that started the Ivy League believed that what was important was athletic participation for many, in many areas and not overemphasis on the "big time" sports.

I understand that others disagree, but I'm relatively happy with the Ivy idea and how Cornell is implementing it. Would I like those sports you mentioned to be a lot stronger, by all means. But, not if it meant the deterioration of the other sports that have been able to improve. As I've said before, I'm generally an optimistic person, and I expect they will improve. Especially the hockey team.;-)