Quinnipiac signs 23 year-old transfer

[KeithK]

If it's just that Q is pulling from a pool of players traditionally less deeply recruited, ...

I feel like this is the crux of it.  Q is looking for solid college players in a pool that isn't as heavily mined.  These kids are probably less talented overall than those who enter college at 8 or 19 but make up for it in strength and maturity.  We used to get a lot of guys in the 21 year old range (and you don't have to go back to harkness to find them).  If we aren't now it's because we hve a different recruiting focus.

I'm all for insulting our rivals about their academic standards, whetherit's H or Q.  But having lower standards isn't unfair. It just is.

[KeithK]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

But he was our 28 year old, damn it!

[billhoward]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

Dick Bertrand '70 was 29 by the time he was named coach that spring. He had to sit out the NCAAs because at that time the NCAA didn't allow older international players to compete (in the NCAAs) past a certain age. (Even-older alums can recall if Bertrand competed in the NCAAs before 1970. That was when we went to the final four every year.)

So Bertrand went from being the oldest player (or just about) in college hockey to the youngest coach of a major team, and more importantly a head coach who hadn't cut his teeth as an assistant coach. A lot of people think that if Bertrand had been an assistant for 3-5 years under Harkness before taking over, the dynasty might have run through the 1980s.

[ACM]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

Dick Bertrand '70 was 29 by the time he was named coach that spring. He had to sit out the NCAAs because at that time the NCAA didn't allow older international players to compete (in the NCAAs) past a certain age. (Even-older alums can recall if Bertrand competed in the NCAAs before 1970. That was when we went to the final four every year.)

So Bertrand went from being the oldest player (or just about) in college hockey to the youngest coach of a major team, and more importantly a head coach who hadn't cut his teeth as an assistant coach. A lot of people think that if Bertrand had been an assistant for 3-5 years under Harkness before taking over, the dynasty might have run through the 1980s.

Of course, back in those days, there was no such thing as an assistant coach. At Cornell, the position of assistant coach didn't exist until '76-77.

[billhoward]

You're right. The hockey office was Monica (?) the admin and Bertrand in an inner office. I'm trying to recall it visually but it was pretty simple, not meant to wow recruits. I am trying to recall and hoping I don't recall the red carpeting as being shag. Plush.

But then Richie Moran's entire lacrosse operation was a single-dorm size room just off the Barton Hall entrance to Teagle Hall. The one thing better was that the playing field was all of a couple dozen steps away on Lower Alumni Field that was circa 1975 desecrated with academic buildings.

[jkahn]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

Dick Bertrand '70 was 29 by the time he was named coach that spring. He had to sit out the NCAAs because at that time the NCAA didn't allow older international players to compete (in the NCAAs) past a certain age. (Even-older alums can recall if Bertrand competed in the NCAAs before 1970. That was when we went to the final four every year.)

So Bertrand went from being the oldest player (or just about) in college hockey to the youngest coach of a major team, and more importantly a head coach who hadn't cut his teeth as an assistant coach. A lot of people think that if Bertrand had been an assistant for 3-5 years under Harkness before taking over, the dynasty might have run through the 1980s.

Bertand played in the '68 and '69 tournaments.  It was only in '70 that someone came up with a rule that made him ineligible.

[Roy 82]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

Dick Bertrand '70 was 29 by the time he was named coach that spring. He had to sit out the NCAAs because at that time the NCAA didn't allow older international players to compete (in the NCAAs) past a certain age. (Even-older alums can recall if Bertrand competed in the NCAAs before 1970. That was when we went to the final four every year.)

So Bertrand went from being the oldest player (or just about) in college hockey to the youngest coach of a major team, and more importantly a head coach who hadn't cut his teeth as an assistant coach. A lot of people think that if Bertrand had been an assistant for 3-5 years under Harkness before taking over, the dynasty might have run through the 1980s.

Bertand played in the '68 and '69 tournaments.  It was only in '70 that someone came up with a rule that made him ineligible.

You would think that he could almost literally have been grandfathered in.

I'll be here all week folks. Please tip your waiters.

[George64]

Anybody remember how old Dick Bertrand was when he was tri-captain for the 1969-70 undefeated team? Pretty sure he was 28. Goose, gander, pot, kettle, whatever.

Dick Bertrand '70 was 29 by the time he was named coach that spring. He had to sit out the NCAAs because at that time the NCAA didn't allow older international players to compete (in the NCAAs) past a certain age. (Even-older alums can recall if Bertrand competed in the NCAAs before 1970. That was when we went to the final four every year.)

So Bertrand went from being the oldest player (or just about) in college hockey to the youngest coach of a major team, and more importantly a head coach who hadn't cut his teeth as an assistant coach. A lot of people think that if Bertrand had been an assistant for 3-5 years under Harkness before taking over, the dynasty might have run through the 1980s.

Bertand played in the '68 and '69 tournaments.  It was only in '70 that someone came up with a rule that made him ineligible.

Those were the days, though.  Great photo of Bertrand in civies and Lodboa, with Harkness on their shoulders.

[ugarte]

I'll also say that I'm skeptical that this is in any way unfair. Why would a dominant 23yo be less likely than an equally skilled 19yo to be in the pros rather than in the NCAA? That seems counterintuitive.

Really? This is pretty intuitive scouting to me. Given a 19- or 23-year-old with roughly equivalent raw skills, a pro scout will prefer the teenager because he has more time to develop, and that's what the time horizon of a professional scout is. The equivalent 19-year old is pretty much per se better to a pro scout.  Nobody really cares if minor league hockey teams win, as long as the players are developing (even though you'd expect there is some correlation).

A college coach who wants to win now might prefer an older, more experienced player since a college coach needs/wants to win now and doesn't care about "development" beyond improvement from frosh through senior year. A different college coach might want either higher-upside players that he feels he can coach up to their potential, or one-and-done superstars, or guys who are simply more like their college peers because it is a college hockey team.

I don't care if Quinny gets a bunch of guys on their second marriage, just like I don't care historically that it used to bother the rest of the schools when we did it. I'm still going to make old-man jokes though.

[Dafatone]

I'll also say that I'm skeptical that this is in any way unfair. Why would a dominant 23yo be less likely than an equally skilled 19yo to be in the pros rather than in the NCAA? That seems counterintuitive.

Really? This is pretty intuitive scouting to me. Given a 19- or 23-year-old with roughly equivalent raw skills, a pro scout will prefer the teenager because he has more time to develop, and that's what the time horizon of a professional scout is. The equivalent 19-year old is pretty much per se better to a pro scout.  Nobody really cares if minor league hockey teams win, as long as the players are developing (even though you'd expect there is some correlation).

A college coach who wants to win now might prefer an older, more experienced player since a college coach needs/wants to win now and doesn't care about "development" beyond improvement from frosh through senior year. A different college coach might want either higher-upside players that he feels he can coach up to their potential, or one-and-done superstars, or guys who are simply more like their college peers because it is a college hockey team.

I don't care if Quinny gets a bunch of guys on their second marriage, just like I don't care historically that it used to bother the rest of the schools when we did it. I'm still going to make old-man jokes though.

This is the important part.  We have to do our duty to make fun of his hairline/mortgage/what have you.

[Johnny 5]

Heck, wasn't Roy Kerling like 38 his senior season??

::doh::

[jkahn]

Heck, wasn't Roy Kerling like 38 his senior season??

::doh::

Not even close, born 10/17/58 - freshman year was '77-'78, so he just turned 19 at the start of his first season.
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1978/78070.html

[Johnny 5]

Heck, wasn't Roy Kerling like 38 his senior season??

::doh::

Not even close, born 10/17/58 - freshman year was '77-'78, so he just turned 19 at the start of his first season.
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1978/78070.html

Kidding.

Maybe he just looked 38??

::whistle::

[Rosey]

Really? This is pretty intuitive scouting to me. Given a 19- or 23-year-old with roughly equivalent raw skills, a pro scout will prefer the teenager because he has more time to develop, and that's what the time horizon of a professional scout is.

Does that make him more likely to be in the pros? Or just more likely to eventually be in the pros? There aren't a lot of 19yos in pro hockey: they need time to mature and develop, which is why juniors and college are part of the farm system for the pros.

If we were talking about middling players, I'd agree that the 23yo is probably at the end of his career, but I'm talking about dominant players: that 23yo player who would be dominant in the NCAA is more likely to be in the pros by that point.

[ugarte]

Really? This is pretty intuitive scouting to me. Given a 19- or 23-year-old with roughly equivalent raw skills, a pro scout will prefer the teenager because he has more time to develop, and that's what the time horizon of a professional scout is.

Does that make him more likely to be in the pros? Or just more likely to eventually be in the pros? There aren't a lot of 19yos in pro hockey: they need time to mature and develop, which is why juniors and college are part of the farm system for the pros.

If we were talking about middling players, I'd agree that the 23yo is probably at the end of his career, but I'm talking about dominant players: that 23yo player who would be dominant in the NCAA is more likely to be in the pros by that point.

A 23 year old going the college route has been told - implicitly or explicitly - that his chances of a pro career are slim. He's using hockey to finance a degree because when he graduates that's probably it for hockey. A similarly skilled 19 year old is more likely to be choosing where best to develop, with education a factor in the mix.

John Furgele transferring to Q after 2 years at UNH.  Eliligible for 2017, he will turn 26 during his senior year.

I don't think enough is being made of this typo in the original post because it is hilarious even though it makes my eyes hurt.

My argument about him no longer being a pro prospect applies even more here - he went to college at 21, spent two years on campus... then transferred to another campus. (How does he have 4 years of eligibility left, CAS?)