Do we need a housecleaning in the athletics dept?

[marty]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

Cornell is going to fall behind H/Y/P in athletics because we are behind H/Y/P in financial aid guarantees. It isn't athletic scholarships that are going to do us in, it's regular old financial aid. Being able to guarantee a full ride to middle class kids (actual middle class, not responds-to-a-survey-"I am middle class"-middle class) is a huge advantage in recruiting.

This translates into unlimited athletic scholarships for much of the middle class.

[Swampy]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

Cornell is going to fall behind H/Y/P in athletics because we are behind H/Y/P in financial aid guarantees. It isn't athletic scholarships that are going to do us in, it's regular old financial aid. Being able to guarantee a full ride to middle class kids (actual middle class, not responds-to-a-survey-"I am middle class"-middle class) is a huge advantage in recruiting.

This translates into unlimited athletic scholarships for much of the middle class.

An expensive idea perhaps, but is it a bad one?

Related: Bernie Sanders is proposing that all public higher education be made free. Presumably this will come through federal subsidies. Whether or not Sanders is elected, if this idea carried the day in this election or a subsequent one, how might tuition at the private land grants be affected?

Cornell's relation to New York state is through contracts. I'm not sure what MIT's is. Are there any other private land grants?

[Towerroad]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

Cornell is going to fall behind H/Y/P in athletics because we are behind H/Y/P in financial aid guarantees. It isn't athletic scholarships that are going to do us in, it's regular old financial aid. Being able to guarantee a full ride to middle class kids (actual middle class, not responds-to-a-survey-"I am middle class"-middle class) is a huge advantage in recruiting.

This translates into unlimited athletic scholarships for much of the middle class.

An expensive idea perhaps, but is it a bad one?

Related: Bernie Sanders is proposing that all public higher education be made free. Presumably this will come through federal subsidies. Whether or not Sanders is elected, if this idea carried the day in this election or a subsequent one, how might tuition at the private land grants be affected?

Cornell's relation to New York state is through contracts. I'm not sure what MIT's is. Are there any other private land grants?

https://www.quora.com/How-did-MIT-become-a-private-university-given-that-it-was-one-of-the-two-Land-Grant-schools-of-Massachusetts-the-other-being-UMass-Amherst

[Jim Hyla]

It's possible to have both academic and athletic excellence.  Look at Harvard's recent football and basketball run.  Is there a reason we can't compete with other Ivies in football and basketball?

Cornell is going to fall behind H/Y/P in athletics because we are behind H/Y/P in financial aid guarantees. It isn't athletic scholarships that are going to do us in, it's regular old financial aid. Being able to guarantee a full ride to middle class kids (actual middle class, not responds-to-a-survey-"I am middle class"-middle class) is a huge advantage in recruiting.

I thought we agreed to match any offer from other Ivies? I don't know what that actually means, any one out there to help me?

[CAS]

Yes Cornell has a policy where it matches the financial aid award for admitted students who are accepted to other Ivies.  So if Cornell and Harvard both admit someone, Cornell will match the Harvard financial aid award.

[Trotsky]

Yes Cornell has a policy where it matches the financial aid award for admitted students who are accepted to other Ivies.  So if Cornell and Harvard both admit someone, Cornell will match the Harvard financial aid award.

How do we know the Harvard package?  Do we send our admittee a coupon that reads "just bring your Harvard aid letter to the Bursar and we will meet the terms"?

It also seems backwards.  Yes, an admittee to both might choose based on an aid discrepancy if it favored Cornell, but I don't think many* are choosing Harvard on the basis of "well, I was accepted at Cornell too, but they didn't give me a comparable aid package."  

*Exceptions include engineers and medievalists.

[upprdeck]

interesting in that kids we cant get admitted though end up at other ivies for sports though..

[Trotsky]

interesting in that kids we cant get admitted though end up at other ivies for sports though..

Every school says this about its more academically competitive opponents.  It may happen, but when I hear it I tend to think it's our equivalent of "well, BC / William & Mary / Rutgers (Rutgers?!?!) was invited to be in the Ivies, but we turned them down."  ;-)

I have a feeling the students who are rejected by Cornell but accepted by HYP are legacies, not athletes.

[CAS]

The bottom line is with our ability to match the fin'l aid awards of every Ivy, aid is not the reason we are uncompetitive in football & basketball.

[Ken711]

The bottom line is with our ability to match the fin'l aid awards of every Ivy, aid is not the reason we are uncompetitive in football & basketball.

Which goes to my point of other factors besides coaching, facilities, admission policies/streamling and recruiting budget. Factors that an outside examination of the athletic department performance could make recommendations on.

[CAS]

Agree - the athletic dept needs an intervention.  Also some passionate Cornell lax posters are livid with the current state of that program.  Check out the Cornell thread on Laxpower.

[Johnny 5]

Agree - the athletic dept needs an intervention.  Also some passionate Cornell lax posters are livid with the current state of that program.  Check out the Cornell thread on Laxpower.

Please, pardon the repeat......



::bang::

[billhoward]

Meanwhile over at Yale, the NY Times points out that Yale hasn't won an Ivy League basketball title outright since 1962, something that even Cornell has done. Maybe housecleaning should have been in order in New Haven? Yale Banishes Demons. Next Are Tigers and Lions.

[scoop85]

Meanwhile over at Yale, the NY Times points out that Yale hasn't won an Ivy League basketball title outright since 1962, something that even Cornell has done. Maybe housecleaning should have been in order in New Haven? Yale Banishes Demons. Next Are Tigers and Lions.

Yeah, but they won a national championship in hockey a couple of years ago, and have been consistently strong in lacrosse and basketball, and decent in football, the past 5 years or so.

[RichH]

Meanwhile over at Yale, the NY Times points out that Yale hasn't won an Ivy League basketball title outright since 1962, something that even Cornell has done. Maybe housecleaning should have been in order in New Haven? Yale Banishes Demons. Next Are Tigers and Lions.

I don't judge the success of an athletic department by the performance of a single sport, like our AD does with wrestling.